What in your opinion could justify torture?

[bludgeon]

I hate to say it, but, if it works, torture I mean, then go for it. Problem is who knows if it's going to work and if it looks like it works, you get info, who knows if its good info?? If I was being tortured and someone decided to dose me up, on whatever they felt like using that day, I'd be like. . .sweet, thanks buddy, bring on the torture, I can't feel anything anyway.

Off the topic. . .why are people given other people negs in this thread?? This is all opinion!! Nobody can say that your opinion is wrong, just that you disagree with it, dumbdiddly-um-dumb-dumb.

[The Old Man]

Hmmm, not sure we're hitting the ten-ring in this matter: The definition of torture in the U.N. policy at discussion is not quite firm. If you examine the makeup of the U.N. voters, you may find a preponderance of small countries who are the worst torture and crimes-against-humanity offenders the planet has seen since the early 1940's. Now, as to the subject of getting information from combatants or other prisoner opponents: Let's say six of us in this thread capture a bada$$ (our definition, of course, not his) that we know has information we need. If we need it like yesterday we have no time, so now comes the medic to do his magic. No torture here, unless you think a sanitary needle ***** is torture. But let's say we have a day or so grace in our immediate need for the information he has. No bars, no cuffs, no roughstuff... we make sure he can't get away easily and has no weapons, and we're all fairly trained in martial arts so his level of empty-handed training doesn't concern us (besides, we can tell from the way he walks and moves if he is trained to any level of in martial arts) so here's what we six do; We relax the mood, sit around, share water, chow, smokes, talk about (made-up) family and home, laugh at the fools that start wars, bitch about having to be out here in this miserable environment, have a small toast all around to love and world peace, more snacks, more toasts, laugh, back-slaps, more toasts... Of course, we're filling our glasses from the flask with the iced tea, and his is getting filled from the Jack Daniel, same color in the glass as our sun tea. Before long we're all seven buddies from way back and the fools who start wars with their brothers are the enemy. There are no secrets between friends on the battlefield. This is way too simple because of space, but you may get the idea. Physical torture breeds immediate resistance, the same as mental deprivement. Soldiers are trained from the rookie stage to deal as well as they can with physical and mental torture and deprivement. They even practice personal deprivation and physical limits. They are not usually ready mentally or physically to be met with the opposite of what they were warned about. PsyOps is not always understood by everyone, including some of the people we hire to practice the art. You have to either know the enemy intimately or gently probe to see what will work and what will not work. Force, deprivation and threats of death will never work with religious zealots of any type whether defending the walls of Qumran in first-century history, the deserts or mountains of this century or on some remote planet in the century after this one. But back to the thread; If I were making the decision, I'd be highly suspicious of the motives of the U.N. in it's wanting to have carteBlanc to any of our institutions, which do not limit visits to only "prisons". Remember, just a few weeks ago our President withdrew his predecessor's signature to the U.N. Criminal Court (take a look at the makeup of that one!) having primary jurisdiction over our military members. And May God Bless him for that one!

[Komisches]

I think the Russkies had it down pat during the cold war. They had some truly awful ways of "extracting" information/confessions/whatever they wanted in the end.

[Gavman]

What ever the reasons it is still wrong! You're damaging another human being who has just as much of a right to have secrets as you. Whether or not they are psychos who kill people. If they get some top secret government stuff well done to them for getting it if you know what i mean.

[AphexTwin]

how many of you here are pro death penalty???
if you are pro death penalty are you pro-torture for the worst of the worst criminals,
rapists, mass murderers, child molesters, terrorists who kill innocent civilians, serial killers?

torture to gain information seems wrong to me, put in the hands of the government, extremely dangerous tool.

but there is no doubt there are some sick f**** in this world who DO deserve to be tortured.

[RuffRyder]

hey watch ir buddy im russian haha

[a)sna]

For those who recommend torture, remember that these people are prisonners of war, right?
And america is a civilized country, right?
It adheres to international laws, like the geneva convention for the treatment of prisoners of war, right?
Wrong!
These quotes are directly from the geneva convention

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.

No moral or physical coercion may be exerted on a prisoner of war in order to induce him to admit himself guilty of the act of which he is accused.

I just hope that the people responsible for the mistreatment of the detainees as they are called are held accountable. Just remember, [shadow]an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind[/shadow]

[carbonlifeform]

http://www.scienceweb.org/tv/highincident.html for infor-
mation on Sodium Pentothal.

The truth is, there is no truth serum. Human beings can
not be forced to tell anything. Torture works by reducing
someone into the level where they only want to get out
of the situation where they receive pain.

I believe torture is wrong.

By the way, U.S. is the top manufacturer of tools for tor-
turers, with Germany, Taiwan, China etc a big step be-
hind.

Resources:

www.stoptorture.com

for a real shock: (with a country list of manufacturers)
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/4e5be7...569fa003ec90e/$FILE/ATTO31DE/act400022001.pdf

[th3>kLuTz]

There are alot of very good points made in this thread. Throughout this thread I see 2 main "Camps" if you will. I see one that says torture is wrong, and the other says that it should be done, but only if necessary or as payback. All of the points are valid. My question is this. "Barring the "civilian" issues such as torturing criminals, as defined by the laws of our respective countries, Hasn't history shown that wars are won when you adapt to the fighting styles of the country you are fighting in? Example. During the French and Indian war in the US, (when we were still England's colonies), The English and the Colonists got their arses handed to them on a silver platter. Why, cause they didn't adapt to the fighting styles of the inhabitants of the area. It is the same in modern day. We let the idiots kill over 3000 of our civilian, and we are worried about theirs? We have turned into a bunch of weak-arsed pansies. No wonder we get laughed at and our words carry no weight. I don't advocate torture, unless there is an extreme need for it (as in the case that someone's life depends on the info and there isn't time to "befriend" the captive. Other than that, I agree with the statement that honey attracts more flies than does vinegar. It may seem that I ranted and raved about 9-11 and our hankling of it, but in my mind, war and torture are synonymous. Think of the mental torture of the mothers whos children don't come home. Think of the people whos minds and lives are affected by the actions of one man who wanted to torture a nation. My answer my be vague. Its because I intend for it to be. The question can only be answered by the circumstances one finds themselves placed in. And, if the life of a person depended on the information to be gleaned from a captive, I would not hesitate to make him so miserable, that he would beg to give the info up. Im not a sick man, just someone who doesn't d*ck around when it comes to human lives.....Before I get flamed, let me clarify that the captive would be one that forfeighted his "rights" as a human when he decided to violate another's "rights", and I would be damned sure that he was responsible for it too.

[spitfire087]

there is torture, then there is torture.

to reply to the original subject of this thread:

[opinion] in my mind, the only thing that justifies torture is if there are lives directly at stake- that this person has put in danger. lets give an example- a person knows the combination to deactivate a timed bomb that is threatening the lives of numerous people. there is no other way to find out the "deactivation code" other than to get it out of this person, and torture is the only way.

i don't believe that anyone should ever, ever, ever be tortured for something that they have done. killed, yes, (the death penalty being the only subject in this category), but never tortured. IMO, nothing justifies torturing anothe person for no reason other then that they have done something bad, or for their skin color, or their religion, or whatever the reason for torture. that is just cruel, and anyone who could inflict that kind of pain on another person for no reason has got to rethink their ethics. [torture\]