Funny how????

[paldie]

Originally posted here by ashbourn
That would be funny if there was a god there is no proof other then a long story book called the bible. Jesus was one of a few 100 peeps at that time who claimed he was the son of god or god or claimed something like that. He was just the one who got followers who got peeps to wright about him and pass it around till there was this big book by tons of peeps who all wanted a peace of the pie then got peeps to to follow them and so on and so on. I think I got off topic again.

don’t kill me on the Negs here but here's my rant.......

OK SO this is totally simplistic thinking. If you believe the bible is a story book then you have not done any research into the historical accuracy of the bible and all of its writing. There are many texts that point to references with in the text that are documents as truth. The book was writing by 66 men over a period of centuries. The Old Testament has hundreds of claims about Jesus that where made hundreds of years prior to his birth. All of which have come true in the historical documents of his life.

OK so many of you state there are other ways to 'get to heaven’ you all maybe right. I am not God and I do not know his mind or thoughts. I do know there are major difference between Christianity and every other religious faith. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam (please pardon my spelling I am just too tired to the typing right) all claim to be the way to God. And the way you get the is my a human endeavor. You have to earn your 'right' to be there. Christianity is the only faith where God provides for his people though grace and forgiveness. It is a God thing, rather then a man thing. Is this the only way? Like I mentioned I am not God and I do not know his mind.

People state, if there is a God why did he do this or do that or allowed that to happen; Why didn't he stop the terrorism on 9/11 or other bad things. Because God is sovereign. He has given man free will and the ability to choose his way in this realm. He allows men to make the choice that are evil. Because of sin or disobedience from God there is sin, God can not look at sin no matter what it is. This is the way the universe has been set up. So there needed to be a way to over come the sin since man could not do it on his own. That is where Jesus Christ comes into the picture. He provided the payment for the sin and all you have to do is accept the payment and allow the grace to extend to you life. simple yes. Easy to do no

Jesus is the only one person in this world that has caused so much controversy. Religion is the one hottest debated issues forever... all of life revolves around it in one way or another. From the calendar to day to day life and you are going to sit there and state the bible is a story book.... You have not done the research and i frankly if you don’t like what I am saying then prove me wrong.... GO do the research I am open to it.... but get all the stuff get both side... find the flaws in the arguments... There are men of greater minds then all of us here who have.....and this has been debates for eons.....

Originally posted here by Ennis
If Jesus returned he would be put in a madhouse.

In Northen Ireland Religion has caused enough death to turn me into an atheist.

OK I can see this. The trouble with most Christain is many of them feel like they have to have it all right in the details of how they go about the specific worship. Too many people worry about the details of it and not the generalities. The generalities are more important

And as far as the mad house thing. C.S. Lewis makes this statement in his book Mere Christianity, "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us."

Atheist mean you do not believe in a God at all. Well you can not know for certain there is no God because you would have to have all knowledge to know that. So what you might be saying is you are a agnostic, that you don't know if there is or isnt a God but at this point in your life you choose not to follow God. there are distinction in what you are saying. With all the proof in science for a greater organized universe... you have more faith then I. Many nodel prize winning scientists are now stating there has to be some outside force the organized our world because the odds of it being the way it is are just too great. They talk about the big bang theory. stating in the begining of the universe there was nothing and something made it all come together....ok right I believe this.... there is no error in the theory here. There is something greater then all of us...that transcended this universe we live in an know...It is called GOD...

Originally posted here by owen76
Maybe the followers should act more like what they are following...

This is totally right follower should act more like what they are following.....This is totally 110% true.... But we are all human and you need to cut some people some slack. you should first look at how you are acting and what you are standing for before pointing to another claiming they are not standing up for what they think or believe...

Originally posted here by Ennis
If you make a structure seem serious enough people are inclined to believe in it no matter how odd the ideology. This applies best to the Catholic church. It also worked for Hitler who managed to convince his followers in many a bizarre, stupid thing.

Please don't tell me you are comparing Jesus Christ to Hitler here... Give me a break...



Ok enough of the ranting.....

[Ouroboros]

Funny how my life has shaped itself with a 'morally correct' outlook, regardless of the fact that i don't practice any religion in particular, but don't reject any of them.
Funnier still is the fact that people chastise me for being 'misguided' or 'lost'....
But the funniest thing is that i can appreciate all of it, without feeling the need to 'choose'.

Ouroboros

[Conf1rm3d_K1ll]

Originally posted here by Negative
Funny how some people judge other people about their judgement.
Funny how some people can send a thousand similar messages like yours through e-mail, and wonder why some people send them to Trash

A good point. This is nothing but religous spam.

[ashbourn]

I have read the bible and I have read tons and tons of history books of the time. The bible new old testament more so in the old testament are stories to answer question that could not be answered at the time peroid. Some have half truths but they are few and stretched out so much it is hard to tell what is true and a story. In the new testament there is more truth in it this one instead of answering questions it was more to give people hope in a time where people were losing hope. I do not deny that jesus lived he was just the one most noticed. Like I said at the time there were 100's of other around that time making claims like jesus. The reason other places wrote about jesus was because it is hard not to notice a man draging a cross down a street because the ruler wanted him dead because he was seen as a threat to his control over the people. I can go on and on but I do not have time tonight maybe later.

[Noia]

To be honest, the Bigest Non-material Killer in this world is Religion and/or belief.
Not in a bad way mind you, but the stupid intolerance of other's has lead to the Crusade's, WWII and Jihad (Spelling is prolly wrrong)
People don't see that we are One People, One race....WE ARE ALL THE SAME!!!

Uch....I'm just tired of the death and destruction that religion has brought.

This point is open for discussion (in PM only), but don't get me wrrong, For me, Any one is allowed to belive what they want, but don't stop other's...

Never mind my rambeling's....I'm just sick of religion post's.
Sorry.

- Noia

[soia]

Funny how people can criticize everything and anything. Funny how people criticize the church, because it is so perfect. Funny how when people do criticize the church you get this group of people who wouldn't want to talk to you because you criticize the church. Your mind has to be open for this one. You cant criticize without being criticized yourself

[Ennis]

Please don't tell me you are comparing Jesus Christ to Hitler here... Give me a break...



Ok enough of the ranting..... [/B]

No I did not.

Agnostic, yes that is a better description.

And somebody said that religion has caused no great wars...I wont even start on that one. Wait I'll read the paper now, just to see how many Catholics were killed today by Loyalist mob squads or if any Protestant schools were burned by a group of Catholics...Jihad????

Which religion is correct, yours due to geographical location?

[shkuey]

If anyone cares to hear my opinion...

Religion is a crutch to help the generally weak human psyche deal with their morality and fear of death. (I'm not excluding myself in that statement.)

That doesn't mean I don't think you should believe in God, in fact I've seen a few very good logical reasons to do so. Pascal's theory, for example.

[SodaMoca5]

Ennis I am the one that said religion did not start wars. I am also the one that asked you to read things in context.

Religion has been used to prosecute wars, to promote wars, to justify wars. Historically, however, it is not the "cause" of war. Let's look at your examples. The crusades were started for many different reasons but only one of them (The Children's Crusade) was started by a religious man for religious reasons. The other crusades were started to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land (BTW Acre was considered the bigger prize and was always the first target). For religion? No, for money. Almost all commerce between the west and the east passed through that area. The Knights of St. John, Knights Templar, and the countries helping to control those areas made huge sums of money off of their control. That was the "reason" for the crusades. However, you do not motivate the yoemanry to join a crusade so the nobles can get rich or gain superior alliances, or even gain a blessing for a war later. Religion was the rallying cry which brought the masses into the army, it was the propoganda cause not the true underlying reason.

Northern Ireland is another excellent example. Ireland and England were fighting when before Ireland ever converted to Christianity (Catholic or Protestant). The war there is not over religious freedom or religious rights. It is over the sovereignty of part of the nation. England has held sway in Northern Ireland by right of conquest. Many Irish feel that they are a tyrranical rule and should be overthrown. Since most of N. Ireland is Protestant and S. Ireland Catholic it is much easier to make it a religious war than the political war it is. I wonder if this does not work better for the British and N. Ireland than for the IRA and other rebellion groups. Why, because the majority of the support for the IRA comes from America. How much more support would be offered if this was touted as a fight for freedom and liberty vs. an unwanted and tyrranical rule. How many more people here would be sympathetic if they compared their current conflict to our own revolution which was held for many similar reasons.

The current Jihads are the closest to truly religion vs religion but even there the underlying cause is money, power, and fear. Do you think Iraq hates us because we are Christians? No, I do believe they hate Israel because they are Jewish (which is why I believe this is close to a truly religious war). They hate us because we support Israel. But what about the other Jihads that have been declared. The war between Iraq and Iran (both declared a Jihad) was about control of oil fields. Sure the people were motivated because the Islam practiced by the other was not pure. This now does not seem to matter but at the time was enough for their Jihad declarations. There have been many Jihads declared by the Pakistani government against India. Because they are Hindu? No, because there are a number of disputed territories on their borders.

How World War II can be seen as anything other than a war based on ideological clashes coupled with a quest for empire is beyond me. The fact that Hitler hated and killed the Jews does not make it a religious war. Japan wanted the Greater East Co-Prosperity Sphere, Italy wanted dominion of the balkans and Northern Africa, and Germany wanted Lebensraum in the east and felt it was her destiny to fight and conquer the lesser peoples of Russia. France, England, and America were merely standing in the way of these goals. Religion? I fail to see how religion could in any way be associated as a cause for this war.

I will make the statement one more time. Religion, with few exceptions, is not the cause of war. It is a propoganda tool, it is a media mainstay, it is a recruitment poster but it is not the cause. Look under the popular reason and find the real one. In most cases wars are caused by greed. Greed for money, land, or power. Sometimes they are caused by fear: fear of attack or loss of power. Rarely are they caused by religion even though it is blamed more than anything. Do you really think Richard the Lionhearted wants to go down in history as a greedy warmonger who attacked arabs so he could control trade routes and weaken the papal favoritism shown to his rival in France so that his claims in France would be stronger. No, history has painted him as the force behind the first crusade, defender of the west, and scourge of Al-ibn Salay Din (Saladin).

I hope this clarifies my position somewhat.

[Ennis]

Northern Ireland is another excellent example. Ireland and England were fighting when before Ireland ever converted to Christianity (Catholic or Protestant). The war there is not over religious freedom or religious rights.

OK, the IRA that has waged war for the past 30 years the Provosionals stemmed from the Cival Rights Movement in Derry at the time. This movement came from religious persecution of Catholics in the aloocation of housing and jobs etc. The PIRA gains its support from purely Catholic areas and Protestant IRA groups have not been seen in a long time. Religion controls the entire war and disrupts the peace process. Paisley views Catholics as sub-humans therefore sets up to have them murdered or did. We have 'peace now'. It may not have began 800 years ago as a religious war but it has revived itself as a religious war and it is.

Since most of N. Ireland is Protestant and S. Ireland Catholic it is much easier to make it a religious war than the political war it is.

Well it about 46% Catholic and 54% Protestant in the North now. Around that mark anyway. Soon to be a Catholic majority and guess what when the Catholic majority votes for a United Ireland the war will end....hmmm...religion again...

Why, because the majority of the support for the IRA comes from America.

The majority of the money you mean from Clan na Gael. Volunteers are mostly Irishmen and indeed the PIRA was given 3000 pounds by the Souths PM to get it started.


Anyway I get your point and fully understand what your saying but I do belive that religion being the main tool ir driving force allows war to occur thus being the cause.