Slavery reparations

[Crimina1]

I believe that the african americans should get the same "reparations" that the jews did.
The jews were put through a whole lot of bullshit because of hitler and his racist views and today we "america" is still bending over backwards to appease the jews,we give the jewish government 14 million
U.S. dollars a day and that's a fact.That's several billion $$ a year meanwhile there are people in our own country who are homeless and starveing with no medical care and no jobs but even thought our country is
in a "so-called" recession we still find 14 million of our dollars to give to Israel per day.I dont know about you but I find that very disturbing.I believe that america should learn how to take care of its own U.S. residents
before it gives out that kind of money to other countries.

I can think of alot of things that can be put to use with 14 million U.S. dollars right here in our own backyard
like Aids,Cancer,jobs,homeless,education for our young kids and a million other legitimate causes that would probly fill this page and 4 or 5 others.But we dont do that,instead we give it to the jews for god knows what
and we say "**** you" to our own residents.
Why dont I hear the same talk about "reparations" when it comes to the jews that I hear when it comes to african americans?.just like no one in my family had anything to do with slavery,the same goes with the jews.
I nor anyone in ny family had anything to do with hitlers plan for "The final solution" but my hard earned tax dollars are part of that 14 million $$$ a day sent to Israel,those monies are better used here in the U.S.A
than over in Israel or any other country for that matter.

The U.S.A really needs to get its priorities in order and start taking care of its own instead of people in other countries.We have the right as U.S. residents to be taken care of first before any other country and its people.

14 million dollars a day to Israel but we dont have money for jobs or the homeless,that's some very sick ****
and what's even more disturbing is that we go along with it like it's ok,if it were up to me Israel wouldn't get 1 penny from the U.S.A until our problems were taken care of first.

Criminal.

[Vorlin]

Let's see here...gotta post because it's something I believe.

1: I'm not a racist person. Period. I don't care what anyone did 100+ years ago for whatever reason...I just get to live in the world that's now been created with said problems.

I've gone to school with all kinds of people in Saudi Arabia at North Campus and Parents Cooperative School from every kind of race and class you can think of. WAY more diverse than ANY high school in the USA, I can guarantee you that.

In school, what do we learn? We learn the subjects taught by teachers and we learn disciplines and household stuff at home. What does this mean? This means that if someone's pissed off their entire life and they happen to procreate, they're going to teach their kids the SAME thing which leads to a bad attitude without any real reason as well as failing out of high school or barely passing only to go onto welfare because you don't want to work because you'd be reporting to a white person, etc etc. I've seen this happen countless times. I've worked right along side them taking out trash and washing dishes and yet they're pissed off because they've got to work? Where in the name of ****'s sake did that come from? Last I knew, people WORKED for a living. And then these people say I've been "given" all of my stuff? Screw that noise, I've been paying a car payment AND insurance since I was 15 and if some dumbass who thinks a country owes him/her a check just because some ancestor of theirs that they probably don't know anything about was held as a slave should get a free ride...sorry, not happening in my book.

It's parental as well as your peers. It's up to the people to make the decision what's right or wrong. At some point, every last loser out there has to be thinking "Man, is this right?" about their decision to be hateful, discontent, racist, etc etc. A black person can call another black person "nigga" or whatever with no negative retort or violence but a white person does that? Please, end of story. And no, you don't see white people calling each other 'crackas' ever day either. Get off the hypocritical bandwagon and look at everything again with new eyes. Work for a living, pay taxes JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES, DON'T expect a free handout, and next thing you know, you too are working a white-collar job making above 10 bucks an hour living in a good house in a good neighborhood driving a good car and sending your two kids to a good school. And you won't be so hateful or bound to bullshit ties anymore.

Growing up in Augusta, Georgia where the black population is more than 50% of the entire city population, I've seen everything from one white person using welfare (and almost died of shame buying bread and milk at a gas station) to MANY black people abusing welfare as a system because they think the world owes them a favor when it's not even THEM that suffered based on the reason they're using welfare. How ****ing cheap is that? "Oh, my great grandparents were slaves so you should pay me money"....I'm sure your passed-on great-grandparents are rolling over in their graves for that one. I've seen 7+ black kids running around half-naked in a checkout line while their mothers (2 sep. women) in full decked out Nike/Adidas outfits w/ jewelry w/ nails done and hair done buying beer and lottery tickets and steak (steak, on welfare...funny). How backwards is that? I know lots of families (white, black, etc alike) that work their asses off and give EVERYTHING to their kids so that their raising is proper and correct. Not the other way around. You don't HAVE kids to get MORE money that you didn't even work for. Unfortunately, that's the way I've seen it worked. Time and time again. And then they wonder why there's distaste? The glaring looks? The "looked down" look? Please, it should come as no surprise.

And my tax money is going towards that. Fortunately, it's changing. Now you can't be on welfare w/o a reason and for a specific amount of time. Good. Make everyone work. It's not the end of the world and nobody owes ANYONE ANYTHING. Do I sound bitter? Better believe it, because I'm just a working white guy who's had money taken out for inappropriate reasons only to be abused for a failing system all for the sake of supporting the weak as well as being passed over twice for promotion all for keeping 'the peace' because the other person met the quota yet didn't meet any technical requirement of a unix sys-adm. Great...I got to clean up HER mess from three production crashes yet she didn't get fired like I would've gotten. And yes, I think it's weak for anyone to believe they should get a free ride. And what's even worse...I don't have a CHOICE at all. You do. Everyone does. Make America somewhere everyone wants to be, not the land where everyone tries to rip off everyone else. The minute this place becomes so bad that it's no longer free to any extent (and I'm not starting a holy war on that either), I'd rather take my chances back in Saudi Arabia...where the government rules all.

Dislcaimer: didn't mean to rant that long but it seems everyone has an opinion so there's mine. Having seen a lot of places, America's by far the best and for those that think it's not...try living in other countries. Hell, just visit for a week, you'll see how misguided THAT is.

[Tedob1]

if it was up to me Isreal would not get anything at all from the US. Not because its Isreal but because we don't owe them anything and we should be helping our own.

Come to think of it, it is up to me. come Nov. im for voting for a new america.

18 mil a day? Crimina1 where is your info coming from. Im not doubting it. id just like to read it for myself. id like to see the 'reason' for this.

[Mahakaal]

Israeli Pac "donations " for election campaigns
On US AID to Israel...visit this


Edit: As far as the reason...who knows...

Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan. U.S. policy since 1984 has been that economic assistance to Israel must equal or exceed Israel's annual debt repayment to the United States. Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

[Crimina1]

Vorlin I couldn't have said it better myself,you the man.I dont belive that anyone should get a free ride either.
Get a dam job and maybe you might make something of yourself and earn enough money to be able to provide for yourself and your family.Play lotto and maybe if your lucky you might hit it and then if you really belive in "reparations" you can split your winnings with the other people that want a free government ride
on the money tree.
I'm sick and tired of hearing african americans blame "The white man" for there position in life and how they
cant get anywhere because the so-called "white man" is holding them back.Well I say it's that attitude that's
holding you back not the white man but your frame of thinking.This is the U.S.A and if you want it bad enough
there is no better place to be but the good old U.S.A,kill that drama about white people keeping you down meanwhile your selling drugs in your community or are on welfare getting a free hand out of my tax dollars,kill that noise.Could it be you keeping yourself down by being on welfare and or selling drugs to your own people?. I see it everyday where I live at south bronx,N.Y.C, black men complaining about how the white man has them down meanwhile their selling drugs to there own people and anyone that will bye them but yet have the nerve to talk about slavery but what thier doing is a form of slavery itself in selling drugs.
I work very hard everyday in order to one day bye a house somewhere in the burbs so that my kids can grow up somewhere nice and not have to live through what I lived through.I dont blame anyone for anything when **** goes wrong but myself because I'm in control of my destiny not The "white man".

In this world you have to work for what you want unless your lucky enough to be born into a very rich family and then you still have to work to keep those riches or you might get find yourself very broke one day.

For arguments sake,lets just say that there is a conspiracy against Black people in america,well if that were
true and I was Black then that would tell me that I would just have to work that extra mile to make something
of myself not just sit back and throw blame because that would just be feeding into said conspiracy,I would
be helping "The white man" fullfill his plan.By selling drugs and being on welfare you are doing just that without any help from anyone.If you really want to be a drug dealer than do it the legal way and open up your own drug store and be merry but Please STOP the white man bullshit becasue the only person holding you down is yourself with the way that you think.Thier are so many ways to make money the legal
way these days that if you have to commit a crime to get paid then your IQ must be under 10.

My wifey just got a new job starting at 30k working from home from her computer and she only has a high school diploma she sits at home all day in her panties doing some form of billing,the point that I'm making is that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do her job but imagine if she sat around all day blameing someone else for her misfortunes then she wouldn't get anywhere and would probly be one of those gimmie chicks
trying to find a man to take care of her,that's bullshit.There isn't anything like having your own ****,no hand outs.Instead of "reparations" for something you weren't even involved in you need to wake up and get your own.If if you know your history then you should know that the african government were the ones that sold slaves to other countries,they sold their own people through was was called "The slave coast"as a matter a fact they are to this day still selling their own people into slavery amongst african nations and this is 2002. So shoudn't african americans be asking the african government for reparations or am I missing something?.That's my rant.Thank you.

Criminal

[soia]

Hey my people were enslaved for 400 years. Im not sueing them for a gagillion dollars. Its in the past. You cant always keep your mind on the past or youll never be able to make forward progresss.

[Chuck56]

Half my ancestry didn't own slaves during any time in the last couple of thousand years. We certainly didn't own any in this country. My paternal grandparents came from Italy in 1910. On my mothers side, my ancestors fought with the Union in the Civil War.

I think, and if this makes me sound racist...TOUGH....that the blacks are feeling threatened. Right now, they are the major minority. Hispanics, though, are catching up fast, and the blacks have competition for the free pie. White people aren't paying enough attention to them. If you notice, most of the attention now is focused on Hispanics.

Rather than sue the government that freed them, why aren't they going after the descendants of the plantation owners that enslaved their ancestors, the traders who sold those people, and the black tribes in Africa that caught them? Answer = Money, pure and simple.

If certain high ranking blacks, who stand to make billions if the bill succeeds while the rest get peanuts, are serious, get to the root of the problem. Sue the various African countries that the slaves came from. I doubt that would go far. Those countries would want an accounting. How many came from each country? What tribe captured and sold them to which trader? I guess it's easier to sue a soft touch like the United States Government while it's still wallowing in the aftermath of Bill and Hillary.

As for the Jews, we aren't the only nation paying to support Israel. Germany is doling out a hefty amount every year to keep that country afloat. Maybe in Germany's case that's only fair, but how much is enough? When should we all wave bye bye and tell Israel it's time to swim or sink and why should WE be paying? My father and all but one of my uncles fought in WW2. My father and two of my uncles were wounded, one disabled for his entire life. Isn't that enough?

I suggest that the Jews look toward Italy for their support. After all, were it not for the Romans, they might not have been in Germany. Were it not for the Romans, they would have remained in Palestine. If we're going to talk about reparations for offenses that happened decades ago, let's get to the root of it, at least as far as the Jews go. Rome drove them from Palestine. Rome took their land. Let them go after Rome. Maybe then I'd be required to do some serious geneological research. Might be a couple of millenia ago, my people did own a slave or two and being the understanding guy I am, I might feel a tiny bit of guilt -- but I doubt it.

I won't even get into the Native Americans.

[SodaMoca5]

Nth Man: I am glad that you are working and getting your degree. I believe this is very commendable. However, using one good example to refute a statistically accurate statement is as unfair as using some of the generalities being thown about in this thread.

Most of the White people I have known that were on welfare were not embarrassed by it. In fact when I worked in Gillette WY (where white trash outnumber all other races trash by about 50:1) I was asked to help a couple of these people to defraud the system. They would buy my groceries with their food stamps if I would pay them $1 for $2. When I turned them down they acted like I was being insulting rather than honest. Let's be fair here people, the welfare mentality hits every race. In fact one of the best things stated here is that it is, in many cases, generational in nature. If you grew up on welfare your chances of remaining on welfare are much higher, irregardless of race. Why throw race into a raceless equation. Percentage wise there are more African Americans on welfare. However, historically, African Americans have been forced into poorer areas, working lower paying jobs and having no recourse but to go on welfare when hard times hit. Many of today's third and fourth generation welfare families came from similar conditions, again regardless of their race. This sets up the generational cycle which leads to the current conditions today.

I do not accept that "Blacks are lazy (please note the intentional use of the term Black vs. African American to make a point)", I do accept though that people who are raised lazy tend to remain lazy. In most cases a good work ethic is taught not inherent. There are many exceptions, even within my own family there are those who are inclined to work hard and those of us who work hard because we were trained to do so (that's me, I am inherently lazy).

Back to the topic of reparations though. As I stated before, if it is an apology? fine that is acceptable to me. Money? I can see no way that the government could fairly distribute reparations, should distribute reparations, or even could fairly raise the money for reparations. While this may be a movement that goes farther than Jesse Jackson or the Rev. Al Sharpton it does seem strange that it has picked up steam at the same time that Jesse Jackson's trusts and charities have been hit by declining donations and scandal. Jesse needed a cause and seems to have found one. I do not think that most of the African Americans supporting this cause are doing it for political ends. I think they are probably sincere in feeling it is another step towards healing wounds. I cannot say the same for the leaders. I do not believe they want the wounds healed. Strife, contention, and racism are their bread and butter.

One brief note on Israel. I support aid to Israel. Why? Well for two reasons, one personal, one political. The personal one is that I am a Christian and I believe it is Biblical to support the nation of Israel. The political one is that I believe they are our first, best, weapon against the fundamentalist fanatics and terrorists that threaten us. Take the figure of the aid we sent them and then compare it to the cost of the Gulf War which only lasted a couple of months. With this money we buy military units, political influence, and intelligence gathering that we could not provide for ourselves at 100X the cost. I think our Return On Investment (ROI) makes Israel an excellent market to invest in.

[DarkGuardian]

And the government would not be cutting every African American slave descendant a check. Instead, a commitee (probably the one heading up the reparations legislations) will hold the money in a trust, and claims will be made toward it. The idea has merit. And as long as it's carried out well, it should work fine.

http://usaweekend.com/02_issues/020...eparations.html

I feel the need to repost this as some of you have either forgotten or not seen the link. It's a much better explaination into the whole issue, and has put it all in a much better perspective, at least for me. I was pretty outraged by all this talk of reparations, but when I read the article, I couldn't help but concede to their valid arguement. The way it sounds like it will be set up, even Jesse Jackson won't be able to get his grubby mits on it. It will go the deserving, the poor, the welfare families. If it works out as planned, then I'm all for it.

[implicit_lyrics]

Originally posted here by qwerty_smith
this whole thing has been blown way out of propoertion by people who would rather feel oppressed and leech off of society. those same people have the same job opportunities that i do, same opportunity for education. all they have to do is play the game.

apologies for the dilatory response....
the same opportunities might not necessarily b true
amazon.com has sample pages from some of the books they list
take the opportunity for "savage inequalities" by j kozol

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...=3#reader-link

just because we r playing the same game doesnt mean the initial conditions r equal
the idee of reperations also invokes an archaeology into why these differences exist and whether these differences have existed for the past 400 years plus
and where education is a prerequisite for certain kinds of employment, those forms of employment wont necessarily b available to those lacking the education

Originally posted here by TechieChick
Do they plan on a division of payments based on what percentage of your family (through marriage etc) was on American soil during that time in history or will it just be an across the board tax?

i m not sure financial retributions r the way to go about solving problems
the issues arent addressed and the problems arent resolved
the only concern addressed is "how much money?" and "who gets how much?"
and if that is the intent then the definition of "reperation" must b elaborated upon

I'm just so tired of the victim stance. I could be screaming about what my family lost during the war, the members that perished in the camps, am I? No, it was history. We learned from it and have moved on.

who learned what?
refer to israel/palestine
and usa/vietnam
and shell oil and nigeria
and mexico/chiapas
etc and etc

Originally posted here by SodaMoca5
I agree fully with the sentiment expressed here about reparations. I do not agree with them, I do not feel that we should be paying for sins and crimes committed over 130 years ago.

how recent must the "sins and crimes" b in order to prosecute?
120 years?
129?
10?
2?
to paraphrase n chomsky, if the war crime laws were applied to usa'a foreign policies, then most (if not all) politicians, multinational executives, and military personnel would b incarcerated and/or hung (whatever the preferred form of punishment is these days)

Originally posted here by TechieChick


I am not guilty by association and I refuse to accept that blame nor apologize for what happened over one hundred years ago. I will on the other hand, teach my children to know their history and to know that without knowing their history, it will be repeated and it is up to each and every one of us to not allow that to happen.
(snip)
I take pride in knowing where we've come from and fighting hard to guarantee that it will never happen again.

i m not sure if this enthusiastic promise resembles mockery or sarcasm or....?
r u saying the history that u r trying to prevent isnt happening anymore?
again, refer to israel/palestine, shell/nigeria, usa/vietnam, etc
how r u "fighting hard to guarantee that it will never happen again"? how r u preventing economic exploitation in foreign countries? how r u preventing bureaucratic colonialism of "unclaimed" land (the imposition of the idee of "property")? or r u restricting your efforts to the neighbourhood directly adjacent to your physical existence? if so, please rent the film "mephisto" from 1980 or so.