Vietnam

[Tedob1]

(feeling rather nostalgic today)

The eastern world it is explodin',
violence flarin', bullets loadin',
you're old enough to kill but not for votin',
you don't believe in war, what's that gun you're totin',
and even the Jordan river has bodies floatin',
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

gghornet

you mean to tell me the armed forces ot these united states dosn't consider you moral enough to join the army, murder maime and mutalate men women and children because you failed to report the fact you moved to your recruiter?

(based on the story of alices restuarant)

[celforama]

fih dolla fih dolla!!

[doktorf00bar]

I'm gonna risk gettin' negged on this one, but I must say one thing you must all always remember:
ALL wars are based on economics.

Peace out....

[4MidgetHitmen]

We are going to be at war with Iraq much sooner then later... That said it is p to us a citizens to let the politicians know that we will not tolerate another Vietnam... Not by protesting against the war which doesn't hurt the politicians but the troops who are doing nothing more then we ask them to do... We need to support our troops and make sure the politicos know we will hold them accountable if they don't let them fight and win... in Vietnam we never lost a battle and we still lost the war...

"The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

[Chuck56]

4M, The quote by Jefferson and the other are two of my favorites.

Another I like is from Patrick Henry ..."The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."

[gghornet]

No I failed to report the fact that I moved to the court system of the state of MO,therefore not showing up to a court date I didn't know I had.Making the court issue a bench warrent for failure to appear.It was apparantly considered a lie by the army when they asked me what crimes I had been charged with and if I had any warrents,and to the latter question I answered no.To comment on what Mage said,why aren't you talking tactics and numbers?Politics is only part of war.Tactics numbers and moral are the other part.As far as the politics go I feel Bush is right in doing what he's doing.Although the draft most likely won't be needed.If it is and he hasn't passed the bill through congress,then the whole time congress is debating and voting on the bill soldiers are going to be stuck in Iraq waiting for their reenforcements to be trained,and shipped out,all the while being killed,because the bill got put off to the side so as not to upset people with the minor possibility that the draft may need to be reinstated.

[Chuck56]

I doubt there'll be a draft. It's been talked about almost every couple of years. There are votes on the line and those folks in Washington like their cushy $150K plus jobs.

Personally, I'm in favor of the draft. I'm not sure about two years, like it used to be. One year is enough. I faced it when I was 18. I enlisted before it got me.

In my day, it was for 2 yrs. I'd modify that and say a year is enough, although it would limit your choices. Some military schools are longer than a year.

[darkes]

One thing to remember about Vietnam was that there was no clear objective for most of the war (partly the fault of the UN). The politicians did not want to upset anyone, so you ended up with the US airforce bombing 'suspected truck parks' (in reality an empty area of jungle most of the time), and often being shot down.
If you are going to go to war (Vietnam, Iraq, etc.), then the politics must be sorted out first.

What are your objectives?
Are you prepared to state them openly?
Can you justify these from a moral perspective?

If the answer to those questions is yes, then go ahead.

[Chuck56]

Regarding Vietnam, darkes, you sure got it right. I can't tell you how many times we took the same ground, only to leave it again, and again, and again. Free fire zone today and not the next, search and destroy becomes sweep and clear, it was a joke and, except for a few units, you really didn't want to be in a combat situation with the ARVN.

There's a comment in a movie, Full Metal Jacket, that I liked. Trading ARVN rifles for a hooker. "Never been fired and only dropped once." That about fit those I had contact with. You got it all right as far as I'm concerned. I wish I had extended my tour. I'd be in one piece today.

[Phat_Penguin]

Just to inject a little humour into an otherwise serious discussion - here is a link to a picture a friend sent me the other night. Some may have already seen it

Regards

PP