USA - Iraq (part 7387c)

[TheLabel]

It seems to me that no matter what happens the US is always wrong in the rest of the world's eyes. If we weren't waging this War on Terrorism, other world leaders would be saying that the US needs to do something before another major terrorist attacks happens. In the case that we are doing something, everyone acts like the US is very evil and just wants to control the world.

The US has not exactly singled out Iraq, as Bush named both Iran and North Korea as part of the Axis of Evil, Iraq is just the first country that we are doing something about. Also, the US's past history with Iraq has caused our focus to be on them first. Not to mention that Saddam has been harbouring terrorists that are related to/members of Al-Qaeda, who were behind the attacks on September 11th.

[SoggyBottom]

..everyone acts like the US is very evil and just wants to control the world.

I dont think that anyone here is acting like this.

I think that people are starting to have the opinion and belief that the US only act on such things if they are going to benefit finacially.

The US believe that Iraq has weapons. Why? Cause Rumsfield sold them to Saddam!! Why? To make a shitload of money!!

Think about it...

Who has weapons of mass destruction:

India - YES
Pakistan - YES
North Korea - YES
Iraq - Maybe???

Why does the US choose to start war against Iraq?

- To disarm him (IMHO, no)
- To free the innocent civilians (IMHO, no)
- To save a few cents a barrel on the price of Oil (IMHO, yes).

[Tedob1]

everybody knows "good cop - bad cop" right.

Blair: George this jerk has made *******s out of us long enough

Bush: You right Tony. Let’s go kick his ass ive had enough of this ****

UN: hey wait a second guys let’s not get carried away here. hey saddam you really better show these guys your co-operating. i dont know how much longer i can hold them back.

Blair/Bush: you cant hold us back were gonna go kick his friggen butte.

Saddam: im co-operating already, look …see...go watch with U2s.

Blair/Bush: too little too late saddam were coming for you.

UN: you have to do better than that man they’re loosing it.

Saddam: here…have some secret documents

France Belgium Germany: Hey wait i think maybe we should think this over. looks like he really might be co-operating here

Blair/Bush: Bullshit lets get him.

UN: saddam I really think I can make them back off if you’ll just go a little further. Others are starting to believe you.

Saddam:....

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http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/opinion.cfm?id=164982003

The hawks have made Saddam turn panicky

KATIE GRANT

IF, FINALLY, we do not go to war with Saddam Hussein, it will be the hawks wot won it. In the face of the implacable resolve of Blair and Bush, the old despot is getting panicky, hence the rather better "co-operation" with the weapons inspectors. Nothing like that would ever have happened had "Old Europe" had its way and we were all still turning a blind eye to Saddam’s regime, content to allow him to starve his people while bolstering up a potentially lethal arsenal in order to keep himself in power.
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Am I the only one here that thinks we might be playing this out exactly as its been written for us. Not just by the UK and US but by all the UN nations

If saddam needs to think where after his oil to motivate him…fine. That’s the only thing that keeps him out of the bronze age. Im sure he doesn’t want to loose that.

Family grudge…just as cool.

All of the above…even better.

Al-Quida terrorist threats if war is launched…no affect.

Our message…give it up dude.

His answer…what do you think. Hes a punk-ass

Yes it’s a very dangerous game but hes a very dangerous man. And I really can't believe the UK and USA would go against world opinion. If you do, i think the plan is working because that means he does.

[instronics]

Hello everyone. I have been reading this thread again and again. Actually im scared to post in here, seeing that you could get negged to death if your opionion is not shared by the others. Which kinda sux actually. Anyways, to get to the point. I agree on the fact that there would have to be some form of control for global security. A form of control that PREVENTS :

1- WARS - Wars are not a solution anymore for peace. Wars are only being done for personal gain, either its money, power, oil, wannabe importance etc...

2 - Terrorism - Terrorism should not be faught by war. With war you just kill everything around the actuall problem/targets/terrorists.

3 - Slavery and rasism - Sad as it may seem, but slavery and rasism still exist in many places of the world.

4 - A leader - A leader, or any goverment who tries to make decisions on the faith of other countries.


My beliefs are that the war on iraq is mostly for personal gain. The reason why other countries do not agree with that statement officially is really simple. They are scared. Its not the respect for the US, but they are scared to tell them what they think. In germany someone (i forgot the name of that person, its a while ago) stated that the way Bush is handling the situation is very similar to what Hitler intended todo. (not just about Iraq, but also the next targets to come) That person got arrested! Why can the US afford to start war anywhere they please??? Because they've got the rest of the world by their balls. Every country owes money to the US. Let me give you an example:

1 - Every country owes money to the US.

2 - Every country is dependend on the US.

3 - The entire world's economy is controlled by the US.

If a country chooses not to abide by what the US wants, life can become hard there. Wall street owns the world. The metal manufactures, the weopons manufactures, the oil companies, they control the world, and the biggest ones are US property. No country will ever stand up and tell the US to STOP, simply because they have no chance. The US knowing all this doesnt give a **** and do what they please. Who gives Bush the right to start a war???? Who gives him the right to actually transport any military unit outside of the US. The middle east, asia, africa are far away from the USA. Bush cant even control internal issues properly. Internal issues include drugs, criminals, rasism, slavery (all the prostitutes who are captured and shipped in), weopons deals and a bunch more i cant even imagine. Now he wants to take over international issues? What a joke! My point will be proven after the war in Iraq, there will be a new target, a new war, new reasons (which really are no reasons, or non of Bush's buisiness), more killing and bombing. Noone can stop this. The US controls the world. Sad but True. The world does not have a choice. If a country chooses not to abide by whatever the US wants, that country will go under:

1 - Economically - All the major US companies will leave. The flow of money will be stopped.

2 - The US will remind that country of its depths.

3 - The US will find a reason to bomb them.

There really is no solution. If the US cuts out from the rest of the world, (which is dependend in many ways), the rest of the world will suffer a great deal. The only thing that will happen is that Bush will wage more wars, the next president will wage more wars, until they actually own the entire planet. Its only a matter of time until they find a reason to start a war on Europe, or the USSR, or any other location. Now you will all say im exagerating....LOL, wait and see in 20 years.

I am against this war, and against any war for whatever reason. War is crime. When Bush will attack Iraq, the only victims will be women and children. Saddam who is somewhere 2 miles underground in a bunker, with his PS2 and his 120" color sony TV eating only good food will just watch Bush destroy life on the surface. Now you would say that wars also include innocent victims. Hah. Bush doesnt care. Its not Saddam he wants, its Iraq he wants. If Saddam would be eliminated, and the next day someone else were to rule Iraq, that would not stop Bush from starting a war. The media is corrupt on what really happens. The media shows you what the US government wants you to see, and nothing more. The protests around the globe screaming to end this war can change nothing. Not even Bush can change anything. Its the major industry that controls the government, and all they want is $$$$ and power. As long as there is greed, there will be killings. Killings include wars, terrorist attacks, any abuse of resources. I wish i could say that i can think of a way to stop all wars, or just even this war, but i cant. Its too late. Bush is too powerful. The US industry is too powerfull.

I live in a small village in greece. My parents are farmers. We dont own many things (i used to share my bedroom with my family, cause we had no space). I wake up every morning and goto the bus stop for a 1 hour ride to work. I see the ocean from my home, the beauty of the nature. Exactly the same situation applies for a family in Iraq. With the difference, they are in great danger of being bombed. And in my situation its a matter of time. What happens if greece strikes oil. How long will it take until that oil will become property of the US. That family in Iraq is the only one who will loose from this war. Their lives. And what for?? Because a madman called Bush and Saddam cannot sit down like civilized people and work things out. Bush will not loose, he will still have his private chopper, his cavier, his little dogs we see on tv when going from the whitehouse to the helicopter. Saddam, no, nor will he loose, hes safe. But that family will loose. Who can they ask for help??? Noone. Saddam doesnt care about this family, and Bush is too busy trying to bomb the world. Your all sitting here talking about what Bush should do about this situation. But who here is discussing that family's fate. The fate of thousands of familys. What about them? What about all the blood and sadness that will arise from this war and the next targets to come? The loss of people or things that they love. I see comments in here saying:

I am with the war against iraq cause i think they are a threat towards the world remember guys its not just Usa is the Uk aswell we may be small be we are god damm mighty lol

sad... Sounds like another movie where the US is out to save the world. But who will save the world from the US?

My deepest apologies if i have insulted anyone personally here. But the question stated in this thread was what we think. And this is what i think and the way i see it. And all our discussion, discoveries about who said what, when, where, can it be proven etc.... will not change the fact that Bush will go out and KILL.


My post is stated only for the innocent victims who will arise out off all this violence and crap that goes around the globe.

Cheers.

//addon//

I flamed the US here because they are the ones who actually have the power at this time. If it were another country who had this much power, they would do the same. GREED.

Cheers

[neel]

Hey instronics,

I agree with a large part of your post, about the USA being powerfull enough to conquer large parts of the world, every little piece at a time. I disagree the US of A is at this moment the most powerfull might on this world. Maybe they will be ever, if they conquer all small lands and have military bases everywere. The world trusts the US of A, to not mess up the world. If they will there's still another half of that same world that can live without US support and also have their own nukes and ****. Bush will be saved, but he will have maybe 10% of his voters alive if it really comes to a nuclear worldwar.

Economy controls the world and the big companies can ruin lands. Yeah, but the US of A isn't the most powerfull. Not every country owes the US money, not every country is dependand on the US and the US surely doesn't control world economy. If it did, some people would call that communism. The "tangles" the US "controles" Europe with are mostly based on trust treaties and army bases. Nuclear missile Bases all over europe. Bullshit nonsence, but true.

True is though, the banks, of wich the US of A does control lot's of things (because it lends so many lands money). Those don't control the world, they opres 3rd world countries. Because those countries haveing debts there, wich they have to pay of in half the lands total income. They never get out of those debts, so they can decently build up their country to standards wich don't have gigantic deathrates for hunger because of a flood. Even the netherlands could "control" a land like that. Dont pay? Military actions... They never had the change to build up a defense because they were to worried to stay alive.

I refuse to believe the US of A is going to conquer the world (maybe I'm stupid and blind, but I don't believe that yet). I also don't want to connect Bush or the US of A to anything like Hitler, but there are similarities. Time and situation is different, but noone expected Hitler to be like the way people know him now. He played with the peoples minds, the same way Bush and others are doing. I try to be clean of all talks and look at things that do happen only.

I don't even want to discuss fi other copuntries would do the same, I don't know, don't want to know, don't want to tell my view on that.

I have the I forgot something I wanted to say. I'll add it when I remember.

[instronics]

Hello neel, sorry for waiting so long for my reply. I wanted to think well before responding to your reply. Let me try to explain my thoughts on that.

I agree with a large part of your post, about the USA being powerfull enough to conquer large parts of the world, every little piece at a time. I disagree the US of A is at this moment the most powerfull might on this world. Maybe they will be ever, if they conquer all small lands and have military bases everywere. The world trusts the US of A, to not mess up the world.

Its not because its the USA. Any country with this amount of power would abuse it. Abuse it to satisfy their needs. Their needs are blinded by greed, greed as in what they can take since they have that kind of power. All the talking they do (or anyone owning that power) will try to find excuses like the arguments presented by the USA and the UK. Sorry, not the US, but BUSH. Let me make that clear, that i do make a difference between Bush and the people of the US. I tend to exagerate when i said that Bush or the next one in charge will keep on conquering....i love to exagerate. But be sure that Iraq is not the last target. Its nowhere near the last target. When Germany and France said that they are withdrawing their intention of attacking Iraq with Bush, Bush said that Germany and France are becoming a problem. This statement is something i want to be very carefull about, since my only source to it is the media. So, now comes the question, truth or lies. The world does indeed trust the US, but only until the attack on Iraq. Once this has been accomplished, (maybe even sooner, who knows) and the next target is to be specified as "war against terrorism", or "The new target has weapons of mass destruction" the trust will fade. You cannot expect Bush to understand that he is messing up the world, he's blinded with hate and greed. I choose the words hate and greed because his actions will kill human lives (remember that poor family).

Then also:

Economy controls the world and the big companies can ruin lands. Yeah, but the US of A isn't the most powerfull. Not every country owes the US money, not every country is dependand on the US and the US surely doesn't control world economy.

Economy does own the world. The US is the worlds largers economical leader. Its not only the companies, but also the "foul" play that would follow. And ok, its not every country thats depented. But...the countries that are depentend are the countries that have alot of power themselves. Germany, UK, France, Austria, Italy and a few others. They cannot stand up against the US, because they are totally dependend on the US and are scared what would happen if they stopped supporting the US. Even Greece. Alone if the Coca Cola company was to shut down all foreign departments, do you have any idea how many people would loose their jobs? How about Microsoft? And and and....

I refuse to believe the US of A is going to conquer the world (maybe I'm stupid and blind, but I don't believe that yet). I also don't want to connect Bush or the US of A to anything like Hitler, but there are similarities. Time and situation is different, but noone expected Hitler to be like the way people know him now. He played with the peoples minds, the same way Bush and others are doing

I agree with part of that. Ofcourse you cannot believe many things the rest of the world is accusing Bush for. You cannot understand how that "family i mentioned earlier" thinks. You are pretty much dependend on the media, on what people tell you. Bush tells you its about protecting the world, protecting you. About how evil the target is, and how they will save the world. Its eveywhere you look, the ads on the bus stop, the stations, magazines, news papers, media, internet. Which is why i clearly said earlier on that i make a difference between you, the people, and Bush. Im by no means saying that what Saddam did/is doing/wants todo is correct or good. Thats beside the point. But who elected Bush to be the savior. With what rights does he do what he plans on doing? Your everyday surrounding is that so called "playing with peoples minds". In the media, you see the US soldier helping a kid find shelter from an attack, or the US medical department helping the wounded. What you do not see is the bombs killing innocents, killing lives, hopes, the land itself. Damn, i hope i dont sound to much like greenpeace.
You dont see the loss. Just the gain.

Please everyone, i hope noone is offended by my words, no offense intendted. Just my thoughts and experience. I for one can see clearer the opinions of Iraq, due to my greek mentality, my way of life. Its not too different. In greece, the people themselves do not agree with the way of Bush, or any so called 1st world country. Maybe its jealousy (we dont even have dsl yet). Maybe its because we have much more freedom that the US, or other countries. Who knows. Fact is that the landscape i live in and my style of life is similar to any middle eastern country. So, im imagining the fact, that if the US was to come here (greece), and want something, our people (not our government!!!!), would not welcome that, resulting in putting us as a target. A target not necessarily for war, but the so called "foul" play. They would try to make us look bad/wrong/evil in the eyes of the UN, and the rest of the world. If its Saddam you all want, go take him out. But not because Bush wants it. Let me put it this way. What if Iraq would surrender? If saddam would truly suicide, or tell the US that they may have won the war, but that nothing on Iraqi territory was to be taken to the US (oil, other resources). What then? Is there any source of guarantee that the US will not rape Iraq's resources for their own benefit or profit??

I await what you wanted to add.

Cheers.

[Anatra]

well, I'm against all war... I think peace is a valour that cannot be cancelled whit a stupid war...
But American ( I hope) must have their reason to do this terrible thing called war....
Saddam is a mad man there is no doubt...
I'm very confused of what it's happened from 9/11 till today... to many secrets, to many things that aren't clear...
if you want there is a lot of link that can be usefull to understand or make more confusion in our mind...
Sorry but the site are almost all in Italian but some interesting link are in english....
if you want some document just tell me and I will send you what you want... (I had downloaded a lot....)

the list is:
http://www.nowar.too.it/
http://www.noallaguerra.8m.com/
http://www.attaccoagliusa.too.it/
http://www.public-action.com/911/cbsflight77/
http://antiterrorismo.supereva.it/
http://www.twintowersday.com/index.php

PS: Good Thread...
and very good replies

KEEP PEACE ALIVE!!!!!

[englishgirl1]

I agree with Soggybottom - I read the papers, I watch the news, I surf every single news site going and I have done so since 9/11 but *I still don't get it*. I'm sorry I know the historical side of things creates tension and that the religious intolerances also make it worse, but how did someone in Afghanistan organising the brutal murder of people in America translate into "and now we must bomb Iraq?" I don't know where the end is, if Iraq first, then north Korea, what about India, Japan, China? The list of countries that have demonstrated military power is very wide.

This is not to say I disagree with going to war, I just don't have enough information to form a valid opinion.

I don't think the US is this evil empire, I think we are all pretty evil in our own way and given
the same chances I can't think of any country that would act differently.

I do think though, that this is probably the first war fought in major part, by a publicity machine.

Rachel

[i386]

Now my own poem about
WaR

I walk this days
With my own dream,
I am gone in the life ...
I am a part of war ..
I am the war ..
But yet i am just an human ...
I want this war to end,
I want to be like heaven,
I dream again,
To peace and health,
I want to see tomorow...
This are my words,
For you and me ..
This is our dream ...
Forever !!

Cya ......

[allenb1963]

ArabNews

Just to get a glimpse of a different perspective....something other than U.S. or European media sources.