Abu Mazin/Puppet or not?

[gold eagle]

these many discussions about the middle east almost seem to go round and round without ever really stopping at a conclusion. Perhaps that is the way of things. I suspect that someday, once again, an external force will take mastery of the region and enforce its own rule.

[bballad]

Originally posted here by KorpDeath


Here's one definition. (FIrst one I found, funny it's from a Catholic website..)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08193a.htm

Israelites
The word designates the descendants of the Patriarch Jacob, or Israel. It corresponds to the Hebrew appellation "children of Israel", a name by which -- together with the simple form "Israel" -- the chosen people usually called themselves in Old-Testament times. Foreigners and Israelites speaking of themselves to foreigners used the term "Hebrews", commonly explained as denoting those who have come from "the other side" of the river (the Euphrates). Another synonym for Israelites is the term Jews (Ioudaioi), especially used by classical authors, but also often found in Josephus and in the New-Testament writings. The object of the present article is distinctly geographical and ethnographical, leaving, as far as possible, the other topics connected with the Israelites to be dealt with in the article on JEWS AND JUDAISM, or in particular articles on the leading personages or events in Israel's history.

That's a popular definition. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's about the jist of it.

Wounderful quote proveing my point. Muslims consider themselfs desendents of the same line.

[KorpDeath]

But Palestinians aren't Hebrew, neither are they Jews, so I don't see how that definition proves what you're saying. Please explain.

[bballad]

But they are Hewbrews and Jews or at least they where. What we are dealing with here isn't a racial conflict but a conflict between to factions of a religion that split a hell of a long time ago. Any claim that Judaism has on the holly land, The Muslim faith also has.

[gold eagle]

I don't understand your point(s). The palestinanians were never part of the ancient hebraic tribes that left Egypt. The whole point a certain part of the palestinian ancestors were there before the hebrews came.

Second thing, the religion of Islam was never part of the judaic religion; it developed quite by itself. It does incorporate some of the same people and places and names but so does all religions of that area. Check out Coptic, gnostic, and others.

[rcgreen]

Let them fight over that worthless scrap of desert as long as they must.
They are missing out all the things that really matter, sacrificing the
lives of future generations to satisfy their irrational hatreds.

IMO, neither Jew nor Muslim knows diddley about squat.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/k...1&byte=5277078

We in Western civilization (whether we appreciate it or not), enjoy a much better
inheritance of prosperity, human rights, and philosophical outlook because our civilization
is based on Christian, rather than Jewish or Muslim principles.

They can't build a civilization because they are alienated from God

[Negative]

/me thinks it's about time to move to the next level and finally separate church and state, so he doesn't have to listen to this 'May God be with us'-crap anymore...

I'll be the first one to admit that civilizations based on 'christian' values are 'better', but I consider those christian values to be trivial.
You can't compare christian values to 'Muslim principles'. You should be comparing Jesus' words to Mohammed's words, and you'd be surprised by the similarity.
Islam is the religion, btw. A muslim is 'a' practicer of that religion. Compare it with christianity and catholicism. I won't judge christianity by the way some 16th century *******s practiced it, as long as you don't judge Islam by the way some *******s think the Koran should be taken literally.
And if I hear someone say 'May God be with us' one more time to justify an inhuman act, I'm going to puke.

[rcgreen]

it's about time to move to the next level and finally separate church and state

Separation of church and state has been a fact of life in Europe and America
for a long time, having begun in earnest 400 years ago. Muslims are incapable
of embracing the concept of separation of church and state because it is
an inherently anti-islamic philosophy. It would destroy Islam. (Come to think
of it, not a bad idea eh?)

[Negative]

Separation of church and state in Europe... 400 years ago? Make that 40 And make that 'Not yet' for the eastern European states

And about destroying Islam.. pfft... That would ruin someone's campaign. /me mumbles something resembling 'Hail to the Thief'...

[vercetti]

My $0.2.
In Islam, there's no church. It's a mosque instead.