Chinese Program Exploits Windows

[AciDriveHB]

Wow, that's an interesting story for the books...too bad there really isn't any way of researching more into that. Sounds like an interesting story to hear...

And I doubt there will never be an OS with no problems or errors or security holes. The only time that would happen would be hte day hackers stop doing what they did, and people were just happen word processing on their computer and that was that

Just a thought...
~AciD

[cutty]

The networking portion was Steve's Web network. No you can't see it obviously but, had you been familiar with Web you would "feel" it. There is no doubt in my mind that the core networking was based on his work..... I do believe that acquiring other companies is legal.... and I can't vouch for any other code.... But I'd bet my shirt on this one....

You see Tiger Shark, it's all about money. Why use your own developing team to develop your code when you can create a research team to find code out there and just buy out these companies or persons cause they are easily bought? It's the law of the business world. Buy out all your competition if you can. When they are all gone it's only you left and there's no other choice but for the people to choose you. So I guess that's the way Bill thinks. Bill is a really smart guy; acquire a company before someone else finds it.

However, Bill has gone wrong a few times since people can play hard ball. Take for instance, Real player. To my knowledge the guy who developed it use to work for M$ but he left and his code wasn't open source and up to this day windows can't get media player to look half as good as Real player. If they all got along we could have the best of both worlds. If M$ stop trying to bit down the competition too then maybe windows would be much better by allowing various programs to run error free.

There are a lot of issues with M$ I disagree with but wouldn't get into all right now. There's the issue of compatibility though which may have been corrected now. I just don't see why M$ was making his own up to date programs incompatible with previous ones. Like various Word programs was incompatible with Works programs. I just figured that this was way out and shouldn't be. But to Bill, it's like let them buy both I get more money. Good for business profit but bad for the user and bad for him in the long run. Just my thought.

Cybr1d:

if there was no errors, there'd be no people fixing these errors.

I get what you are saying, but don't you think there are just too many errors? There will always be errors, I just don't think you should leave them in there since you figure you can fix them later and that's the issue with most of M$ errors.

Programmer: We have 1 million errors Bill, what do we do?
Bill: Does the OS run with those errors?
Programmer: Yes Bill it does?
Bill: Have we reached our release date?
Programmer: Yes Bill.
Bill: Well release the damn OS, we would have patches before they can figure out the errors.

That's pretty much what happens. Get it out there making money while we create patches. It's the way of the business world. Pretty smart, I got to hand it to them even if it's all on our backs.

Guidance...

[Tiger Shark]

Cutty: Other than the purely money factor what exactly is the difference between one group going out and buying the best code and coders they can find and open source software such as linux. In OOS' case they take the best of the code that people are giving freely and generate an OS from that. In M$'s case they buy the same thing in a competitive market arena.

The results are the same but one lacks the altruistic high ground and the other lacks the spoils of war, (read profits). Neither is inherently wrong and neither is inherently better.

just a thought or two for what they are worth....... Time to go now..... I have a cold one with my name all over it......

[AciDriveHB]

That's pretty much what happens. Get it out there making money while we create patches. It's the way of the business world. Pretty smart, I got to hand it to them even if it's all on our backs.

Which is what I think Windows ME is. I heard about Windows ME coming out, it's going to be the OS that crosses the Win9x world with the NT world... you'll get the best of both worlds. It looks thrown together, still runs off of what seems the 9x kernal, crashes all the time, BS this and that, problems problems problems. Why was it released, because the new Mac OSX was coming out, or just the new Macs in general (I can't seem to keep my dates sorted in my head at the moment). So now a ton of people are still using an OS that was supposed to be this great work of art, and turned out to be a flop... just to meet a date.

Instead of thinking of the user in the end, lets worry about what the other people are doing. Even though if they would have waited a bit longer it would have been great... what everyone expected from all the hype. Instead it was a failure, one OS I don't even own a copy of and won't even really deal with because it's not worth my time.

Because of all the hype, we had to wait until the release of Windows XP to get what ME was supposed to be. To me that just doesn't sound right. It's like telling your kid you are going to Disney World this summer, and talk about what you're going to do there, etc. Then instead just go to the local park and save the trip for another year. Should have pushed the date back instead of upsetting a lot of people and wasting a lot of time and money on a worthless OS... At least that is my view.

Cutty: Other than the purely money factor what exactly is the difference between one group going out and buying the best code and coders they can find and open source software such as linux. In OOS' case they take the best of the code that people are giving freely and generate an OS from that. In M$'s case they buy the same thing in a competitive market arena.

The results are the same but one lacks the altruistic high ground and the other lacks the spoils of war, (read profits). Neither is inherently wrong and neither is inherently better.

In that perspective, I can't really say anything against it. Just somtimes it makes people feel like M$ is trying to be the only person on top rather than letting other small companies have a chance to make a break in the market with their own ideas. In a way I can see it as M$ is stealing other peoples ideas, whether they buy it or what not.

Just a thought...
~AciD

[DeadAddict]

I have always said Windows software is like swiss cheese. I know to make software easy to use you have to lean a little bit away from the security side. I would rather have it a bit hard to learn and very secure. than so easy that a script kiddie could break into it without breaking a sweat. Microsoft would probably be less of a target if they would release a small portion of the source code or enough to make people happy.But for that to happen H3ll would have to freeze over twice.I don't think that will happen anytime soon

[DivineRogue]

Originally posted here by cutty

You know why? We settle for second best, because it's easier. We don't want to go the extra mile for what is better and that's just an issue people like Bill capitalizes on and always will. Until the day we open our eyes and see windows for what it really is then Bill we continue to make tremendous amounts of money for building OSs that have four times more errors than the one before and make twice the amount of money for it.

Microsoft for a while has had a "monopoly" on the market and when there is not a compediter then your product does not have to be amazing just "good". Windows is by far easier for most people to use. Hense alot of buisnesses will use it so they dont have to spend $$$ training the entire company how to use it. Instead they use Windows for day to day company stuff and use nix in part of IT for various things that it is needed for. Also it is not really cheaper to use Linux in the corperate enviornment... Little thing with linux that costs money is support... most companies cannot afford to not have support on servers. Its not that we settle for second best, it is more that we have to do what is best for the company. Microsoft is also expanding in Research and Development so hopefully it will get better. The best computer enviornemt is one that uses the best of what the distros offer.

[AciDriveHB]

I have always said Windows software is like swiss cheese. I know to make software easy to use you have to lean a little bit away from the security side. I would rather have it a bit hard to learn and very secure. than so easy that a script kiddie could break into it without breaking a sweat.

Though you can still make it as secure as you want, and someone will still find a whole.. there always will be one. The fact is that Gates does his job and it can stay easy to use, its just the fact that (in my opinion) he needs to keep a better eye on the code that is used. Because with every security update, that does not affect the interface of Windows at all... so that shows it can be secure but still easy to use.

Microsoft would probably be less of a target if they would release a small portion of the source code or enough to make people happy.

Again I stand by the fact that if the source code was released, I think people would just hack it more. The damage is done, and there are the people who target M$ just because it's M$. Releasing the code would only help those people better attack Windows getting at Gates. Plus releasing a part of the source code, what would that really do? Which part would you release... how much would make the public happy?

I don't totally support the guy and how he does stuff, but I would look at it from any aspect. I think if enough people wanted to, *nix flavors would be full of holes too. But no one goes after them because they started out freeware, and they stay pretty much freeware. Though there are security threats and stuff aimed at that OS, just not as often... plus it doesnt directly attack any company or person so its not big news. Remember, the things in the news aren't always true.. and just because they are in the news doesn't mean it's the only thing going on.

But for that to happen H3ll would have to freeze over twice.I don't think that will happen anytime soon

No I will give Gates this, I think if an understanding would come of it... he would give. But that would have to be a pretty damn good understanding. And I'm not talking about a court order or anything like that either.

I don't know maybe I'm starting not to hate Gates as much after all this, or maybe when I made my first post I was just ticked off and something just set me off. Or maybe I'm just in too mello of a mood to really think about the ******* he is. Though when I came home I had another damn security update to install/restart.

Just a thought...
~AciD

[edit]

Didn't mean to skip you DivineRogue, just am tired and wasn't thinking. LOL... You make a good point about *nix being expensive to maintain with support, and a reason why it's not used. There are pros and cons to both sides, but *nix OSs are nice to have as servers. Plus I think in time more people will learn it so there won't be such a demand. Right now it's just slowly working it's way up, hopefully it will keep M$ on it's toes and keep them cracking at bringing out a better server side OS!

Microsoft for a while has had a "monopoly" on the market and when there is not a compediter then your product does not have to be amazing just "good".

I like this thought, because its true... not just for computing but anything. Look at Ford, he was fine with this model and that, only upgraded a little as the technology went... but then other people started coming along and you aren't the only one in the market and you got to make thing bigger and flashier to draw the public to your product. Why upgrade or care about buying something new if it isnt fashy. XP and Mac OSX look alike in ways, like the login screen. Think they would have done it that way if Mac hadn't brought out their new stylish GUI? Something to think about...

[/edit]

[cutty]

Cutty: Other than the purely money factor what exactly is the difference between one group going out and buying the best code and coders they can find and open source software such as linux.

Tiger Shark, well other than money M$ would buy out a company because of competition. Mark my words not, not because the company is doing poorly but because he doesn't want the company to develop to give them competition. Why can't he push money into the other companies to help them build? Ok, that's a silly question no company in their right mind would do that but why buy them out of the market? Let them be, but no, he has the money so he buys them out. That's real bad IMO. But, then again it's good market it strategy and it's not illegal so more power to him.

Time to go now..... I have a cold one with my name all over it......

Tiger Shark don't drink too much tonight, since tomorrow is a working day. Heck.. Let me get a cold one my self.

Which is what I think Windows ME is. I heard about Windows ME coming out, it's going to be the OS that crosses the Win9x world with the NT world... you'll get the best of both worlds.

AciD, don't get me started on WinME. I've been trying for a while now to forget that this OS was ever made. WinME sucks and that's a fact. WinME was a total disaster and that's a fact. Did I mentioned that WinME sucks... am maybe I did. Anyway let me stay off WinME because I will go on and on and Acid already did a wonderful job of that.

I know to make software easy to use you have to lean a little bit away from the security side.

DeadAddict, all the security updates (patches) doesn't change a thing when it comes to the ease of use so the system could be a lot more secure up front. Oops and likewise Acid said that too:

Because with every security update, that does not affect the interface of Windows at all... so that shows it can be secure but still easy to use.

Microsoft would probably be less of a target if they would release a small portion of the source code or enough to make people happy.

DeadAddict, in my true opinion I think it would be a bad idea for M$ to do that, even if am really curious about that code but not for hacking reasons. I think that will make windows just more unsecure than it is. I just have to stand with AciD on that one.

Again I stand by the fact that if the source code was released, I think people would just hack it more.

Its not that we settle for second best, it is more that we have to do what is best for the company.

DivineRogue, you made a valid point here and you know what if you have been keeping up with the news you realize that some companies are actually switching over *nix flavors over windows these days. Does that tell you anything? M$ is stating to get a little competition, hence the need for them to expand in Research and Development.

That's all I have for now. *Falls off the chair* Damn am tired heading off to bed.

Guidance...

[DeadAddict]

I respect your opinion

I think it would be a bad idea for M$ to do that, even if I am really curious about that code but not for hacking reasons. I think that will make windows just more unsecure than it is

But no one will ever know if it is never tried at least once the door can swing both ways if it doesn't work then it is no big deal but if it does great I guess some people are afraid to try something new and it is their loss.

AciD, don't get me started on WinME. I've been trying for a while now to forget that this OS was ever made. WinME sucks and that's a fact. WinME was a total disaster and that's a fact. Did I mentioned that WinME sucks... am maybe I did. Anyway let me stay off WinME because I will go on and on and Acid already did a wonderful job of that

LOL I rember reading that

[AciDriveHB]

But no one will ever know if it is never tried at least once the door can swing both ways if it doesn't work then it is no big deal but if it does great I guess some people are afraid to try something new and it is their loss.

Right, but what happens if that code gets out and then a ton of computers are taken over to DoS a bunch of companies... I mean Windows is used everywhere and I know of a few countries where security is far from tight when it comes to servers. That's the big picture of letting the code out I think, even if that's not why Bills doing it. If it was let out I would be very worried about people figuring a way to break into it. Its a lot easier to break a code that you can read straight forward, than it is if you have to hack it.

Plus I bet more people would go after M$ saying they stole code, etc. Because there are too many people these days that just wat to get rich fast, whether they deserve the rights or not. That would just lead to more bullshit and web slinging back and forth I think.

Just a thought...
~AciD