Do you believe in god?

[knocker]

I keep reading posts that more or less have all the same basic ideas with a few exceptions. One side wants to disprove god (the christian one) with science and then the other argues back with biblical quotes and such. This arguement can not only not be won, but shouldnt really even be pursued. Why you ask?

well first of all, for fear of the answer... one way or the other would completely shatter the foundations of civilization. This is all beside the point considering we will never know until actually do go up to that spirit in the sky (or not, depending)

but the biggest problem with it is the arguement is over two *man-made* interpertations of their world. Any specific religeon is a belief system created by man. No matter how you cut it, even if moses spoke to god it was still his, and his followers interpertations of what was said. even if there really was a jesus, it's still the interpertations of those who knew him. No one really knows for sure if those things happened, they are theories. And as far as science goes well it is a simple fact of science that nothing is known or fact. science fundamentaly betrays itself with that principle. Evolution is still a theory, the fact that a lot of people belive it just makes it a very popular one. a thousand years ago it was a very popular theory that the earth was flat. Theres no difference.

The point im trying to make with all this hot air is that we're arguing two theories, one that is ever changing and never certain (science) and one that is just very old and dated and if it were to be thought of today would be laughed at by most people (christianity). I think we should stop arguing over sombodies ideas. Another arguement that i find interesting (and better than do you belive in god) is do you have any faith at all? Science is the more robust theory, so i would like to know how closely the scientists and biologist stick to they're theories. Or if they have their own beleifs seperate from evolution and religeous (as i do)?

[RoadClosed]

I missed all the fun here (first day on Cosmos). I say fun because discussing the universe, god, and all things in its vastness can be fun and overwhelming. I like to think that everyone here, disbelievers or scientific fanatics, both often sit in silence at times and ponder the entire process of evolution and creationism. There is just too much stimulus available on our planet, like examples of miracles or new scientific discoveries that shake foundations of old beliefs, both scientific and religious.

Some real-time “personal” thoughts as they come about in my finite mind:

I mean I look at the sun and picture the sun swirling around gathering up matter and igniting its engine billions of years ago and in a few billion years that thing is going to kill us all as it expands into a red giant and swallows up the only planets in the solar system capable of supporting life. Is that the prophecy of god? And in all this vastness how can god just make a note to decide one day to end it all and reel us back into some place of nothingness or substance called heaven. I mean is heaven a physical place or just energy? Got me…

And when I think of the sun destroying the earth I think of all the latest theories on how planets are formed and I go back to an earlier time when the solar system was chaos and gases were flying around compacting and cooling, forming substance from particles flying through our neck of the Milky Way spiral arm. This is where we set and rotate around a larger galactic core. All of these particles and gases solidifying into masses of rock that eventually collide and cool a little to form our current rotation of planets. And then I think, maybe that all just blinked into existence one day in the past. And I try to picture that too. After all the big bang theory, the one that started the whole thing was a blink. Either way you look at it, big bang or god.

Yes they both started in a blink. But the religious one happened in a super blink. Meaning the entire universe we see today was created out of nothing or if memory serves, in seven days. I sit here and think, wow 7 days is pretty tough to fathom. I mean I can see it taking billions upon billions of years to build the cosmic infrastructure but 7 days? Then again life is so complex that it seems feasible that an extra hand could have been used to make it all possible.

When I was young I was taught that the universe will expand to a point and then collapse on itself reversing the entire process. Atom bombs do that, so I see how that is possible and I picture an atomic explosion from movies we watched as a child that were meant to frighten an entire generation into NOT using them. So I picture the explosion and the mass destruction spreading out in all directions and then coming back into the core of the explosion; rushing back to fill the void left as everything at the heart of the explosion is incinerated and a vacuum is formed. Then I think… is THAT the apocalypse and if it is, where will god take us because there is nothing left in existence whether divine or not. It’s all gone. Perhaps god lives in his own universe and that gives even greater thought into physics and alternate universes existing outside of this one.

But most new scientist armed with computer imagery, highly technical instruments and some advance mathematic beyond anything I can comprehend; say the universe is not going to fall back on itself after all. They think it’s just going to keep on going forever and just spread out more and more. This too, is hard to grasp because I can understand the “go out, come back in” theory. I can’t stop thinking of that giant atomic like explosion that could have happened all those billions upon billions of years ago. I mean what existed before that, god supposedly created us out of nothing. Is this god’s work? Maybe god IS the universe. But then again, he or she or it created the earth and all things considered around 4 thousand years ago give or take a few k. Then I look up at the mountain pass outside my office and think… I don’t see a reason to deny that exposed rock on the cliff is many millions of years old and it makes sense by looking around here that an ocean once took up this entire valley and I know that the native species lived here before the ocean came in and those articles recovered from those civilisations vastly PREdate that time window alotted by the bible.

Then Pangea comes to mind and as I set ready to explore the physical makeup of ancient earth and how that reflects to religeous study: I get a phone call and realize my coffee is cold and I put this on hold for another time, one that comes to me often as I try to unravel the grand majesty of our existence. I know I’ll never accomplish it in my mind but who knows; maybe some divine intervention will assist me one day…