Liberals oppose Christ!

[Tachyon]

Tedob1:

I think its more about local governments/companies/school districts being fearful of an ACLU lawsuit. Its a whole lot easier to prevent a harmless yet potential controversial event from happening altogether.

This is with all things in life. There are people who are never happy unless its their way. And somehow these people get personal gratification from preventing school kids from seeing "A Christmas Carol" Why? Because it has the word Christ in it? The story itself has nothing to do with Christ, and barely anything to do with Christmas. Replace Christmas with "Generic family togetherness and gift giving day" Would the children be able to see it then.

Back in the day it was the overwhelming Christian society pushing its values on the minority.
In present days its the small amount of people in society dictating what the majority of people can say or do. All in the name of 'equality'

bballad:

I do agree with you that the government was trying to control us and still are. But if its not religion it will be something else.

Further seperation of church and state is not the only solution, in fact, it will most likelyll only spawn other problems.

I would much rather have the government have the 10 commandments at a courthouse then for them to limit my freedoms because of my race/age/tax bracket

[RoadClosed]

I would rather not have a religiously biased court system.

The ACLU has a purpose although the trend currently seems to be on the side I don't always agree with. Right now we have a dominantly white European transcended protestant Christian culture. That may not always be the case and I hope as society changes that these basic principles stand against the next wave.

Who knows, we may find ourselves in a radically different landscape in the next 100 years. For instance, a radical South American style viewpoint of Christianity through their flavor of Catholicism could become a prominent; if not dominate culture.

Or what if the next wave of Islam takes a serious turn like it did in the 70s, only this time citizen convert in masses. I could even entertain the idea that religion in 300 years might not even exist in great quantities in numbers. Meaning it becomes such a minority that political sway ceased to exist in any area of this culture. If would be nice to see that principles applied today would protect those in the future, no matter what our social/moral/ideological landscape may be.

Do I really think Christians are being oppressed? Has anything today changed since I was a child regarding the constitution and ideal of separation of church and state? Not really. Oh wait, I forgot – we did say the “pledge of allegiance” in grade school. Does having that gone effect the way people view patriotism to their country and its principles? Sure, I could agree to on a minuscule level. Does that item and lack of public lead prayer in school and forcing the removal of the 10 commandments from a public lobby (of a building housing components of the judicial system) oppress the Christians in a Christian dominated society? I don’t think so.

[vampelle]

Sorry to repost in a day old topic, but I need to say my peace on this one.

I personally feel offended when a someone or group of someone's put something like the ten commandments in a public institution that is more than likely to have people of various religions and cultures entering it. I personally feel if they wanted a momument made of the commandments, he/she/it/they could post the monument in a place of it's own like the Lincoln Memorial. That way, people would be able to go specifically to the huge slab of stone to see it, instead of someone taking a case to the supreme court and being forced to see it (it's a bit huge...very hard to miss).
It's not really opressing christianity in any way. Saying stuff like, "You can't worship God and Jesus anymore." would be opressing. Putting christians in concentration camps would be oppressing. Judging someone as being evil because they're christian would be oppressing, but saying they can't have a memorial in a public place with culturial and religious diversity isn't. That's like saying you're being oppressed because you can have a big statue of this huge group orgy.
Now, if I put a big statue of a pentagram which is used in my religion, or a big book with a pentagram or celtic knot on it, then all the christians would be blaring stuff like, "Ohhh you can't have that there, that's evil. We demand that it be removed imediately!"
Also, as far as I know, christianity is still the majority in even the US. If I drive anywhere in the US, I see more christian churches than I see any churches of Islam, Wicca, Necrodriek, Satanism, etc. Not to mention, I don't see any TV commercials about how everyone else is going to a pagan hell if people don't join a pagan religion, but I see -CHRISTIAN- churches doing that a lot!
My major question of the day is, "Why do churches now act more like institutions and professional businesses and corperations competing for profit?"

correction on my typo from "That's like saying you're being oppressed because you can have a big statue of this huge group orgy." needs to be "That's like saying you're being oppressed because you can't have a big statue of this huge group orgy."
I'll buy a new keyboard later today... this one's ancient and needs a good tossing.

[|The|Specialist]

Well no offense but go **** yourself...

Nobody needs to move anything...
Thats just a tree hugers solution to a problem that isn't really there... the "real" problem here has nothing to do with monuments... its about our gov trying to tell us what our ****ing right are... thats for the ****ing civilians, tax payers, & average lazy american bums & losers to decide what should & shouldn't be going on in our country, ya morons! And if the peaple make a good or bad choice then big ****ing ga' damned deal...

If our goverement is for the peaple and by the peaple then why does everyone hate our goverement? And if these peaple are so pro-constatutional then I should have the right to carry any loaded semi-automatic weapon with silencers and grenade launchers into any public area that I want to without being harassed by stupid ****ing piglet cops.

Oh and by the way, my hippie drug cult was getting stoned then thats when we realised govamental and federal buildings are apart of our cult so from now on all stupid pig coppers and feds must go home while we knock over a few buildings and overthrow the goverment while triping on acid and while listening to old school punk such as black-flag's Rise Above... and TheSexPistols' Anarchy in the UK.

Now who wants to join my hippie/drugie/anarchist cult, help me build this into a real "religion", then overtakeing the gov by exploiting their rules and useless laws that they are trying to pass & regulate as we speak.

[Rushyo]

Anyone here read Illuminati

I happen to be a Liberal Socialist from England. In which religion and state are pretty much totally seperate.

But yes, liberals tend to against religious philosophies... because religion is often used as a footing for personal power or power of the state.

[glowpurple]Also if you happen to be under the age of 15 don't bother posting here. And if you can't make a point without swear words then go and read a book.[/glowpurple]

[rcgreen]

Religion is an inescapable concept. Everyone worships someone or something. When people start talking about some humanistic values, or putting man at the center of all things, they have turned the worship of God into a worship of self. As a result, they have propounded this notion that we are all gods and sovereign over our sphere of influence. History demonstrates that when man thinks he is in control, those are the times when society is the most out of control. Today, we have more consistently applied the religion of humanism than in any time in history and look at what it has wrought! What a societal mess it has made! Humanism is an utter and complete failure, precisely because man's actions are so arbitrary and ultimately so cruel.

http://www.forerunner.com/revolution/grant.html

It is not a matter of whether "the commandments" are posted in the courthouse,
but "whose commandments". Someone will rule and enforce a "religious orthodoxy"
of some type, even if they don't call it "religion"

[powertoad5000]

Originally posted here by Rushyo
[glowpurple]Also if you happen to be under the age of 15 don't bother posting here. And if you can't make a point without swear words then go and read a book.[/glowpurple]

http://the.specialist.youarelame.com/

[RoadClosed]

But yes, liberals tend to against religious philosophies... because religion is often used as a footing for personal power or power of the state.

I disagree with this statement. Help me understand this statement because I hear it allot.

But this is what I perceive. Liberals are always stating that government is corrupt and seeking to over power society, yet I perceive that it produces more government offices and takes more money away from the people and places it in the hands of the government. In effect, it makes government stronger both in numbers of personnel and fiscal spending ability.

They are also biased against religion but not because of government control. I perceive it to be that religion directly contradicts their social and political beliefs. They cannot coexist.

At the same time, I do not equate a persons desire to keep religion out of government to be "opposing" that religion. Maybe they are saying, "we just want an even playing field that caters to the beneficial good of all the people” Now having said that; eliminating a literary classic from school is censorship. One of my first posts to this thread regarded using the term "taste o' your own medicine.

I said that because I remember the religious act of trying to ban all kinds of books when I was a child!!!! Those events I admit have left a strong sentiment in my thinking process. Tom Sawyer? Come on. Personally I would love my children (if I had some) to see a Christmas Carol, I would also like them to be able to read Tom Sawyer, and the latest direct contradiction to Christian extremity: Harry Potter.

So liberals mostly do oppose Christ. But at the same time some of the most liberal people I know are deeply religious. When is the last time I've seen a Republican Southern Baptist? Probably never.... and I have lived in Mississippi and in Oklahoma, two states shrouded in what I have heard termed, the Bible belt.