Hell- we didn't need any rights anyway, right?

[webwurm99]

My soapbox is not blindly patriotic, I just think its unfair to state that there is a difference. Terrorism is terrirism no matter what. It could be ten people dieing or 10,000 its still a tragedy. Terrorism isnt just muslims in planes, or irishmen in cars, or a black man with a gun, or a white man with a nuke. The porpose is the same, to terrorize, to keep you or me from feeling like we have the freedom that every man is entitled to.

I promise the world all americans arent alike. America isnt a mold for one kind of person and that is whats so great about it, individuality.


For the record almost all americans are immigrants in some form but the frustrating thing is that people can come here on a boat or a plane and get more help from the gov than peoiple who were born here. I once lived in a apartment that was in one of nine complexes owned by an italian immigrant. Do you know where she got the money to buy those buildings? Ill tell you from my taxes. you would bitch too!!!!!

[bballad]

ITs good to know that he brits are still willing to quietly rollover and gie up their freedoms....I would expect littel els. I have seen my share of third world nations, and I know we have it rather easy here, but its not like americans haven't been attacked by terrorists for years, hell this attack on the world trade cneters may have been the worst so far, but it was not the first. We just tend to forget things easily in this country.

I will let you in on a littel secreat tiger, the reason its so good here is because we as citizans have rights, and we get ratehr upity when those rights are taken away, thas why most of us relize the direction the current administration is taking this coutry is a bad one.

[Tachyon]

BBallad:

I'm served next to the Brits in Kuwait, and let me tell you they do not quietly rollover and give up their freedoms.

Its so good here because you think that your phone line isn't tapped. Newsflash friend, if the govt. want to tap your line, they didn't need the Patriot Act to do it. The Patriot act was just an arrogant confirmation of what the Govt has been doing for years anyway.

Are you so sheltered to think that this kind of thing hasn't been going on? I wasn't around too long for the Cold War, but privacy issues weren't issues then. The govt. would secretly do what they needed to do, and the public was clueless as to what was going on.

And while I do not support the use of the Patriot Act for anything non-terrorism, let me list the rights I had before and the rights I do not have now...

Had before:
Right to vote
Freedom of religion
Freedom of Speech
Right to bear arms
Right to drink beer and watch football on Sunday

Do not have now:
...
Well maybe I'm just a bit naive, but the kind of 'restrictions' you talk of were already taking place before the Patriot Act.

Maybe you can better explain to us BBallad the personal stories of how your have been controlled and restricted by the current Administration.
This would help us better understand your point of view

[Tiger Shark]

BBallad: Let's try a different tack..... See if we can get through.......

The rights that are being removed are an attempt to stop bad people from doing bad things to you. If they can't stop those bad people from doing bad things to you then there is a good chance that you will end up dead. Explain, _exactly_ please, what good all your rights are to you then. Even the very commendible "Right to drink beer and watch football on Sunday" right mentioned by Tachyon won't be much good when you have keeled over and pegged out now will it?

As to Brits "rolling over"..... You gotta get out more man.... Britain, and much of Europe, still have far more "freedom" than the USA. Things like they can see a female breast on television in most countries rather then having such normal and mundane objects censored by your religious fanatics demonstrate the level of freedom you have. Can't see a titty 'cos you might be harmed by it..... Gimme a break..... Call that freedom.... I call it government censorship!! But that's ok isn't it - because it's American Government censorship. What's laughable is they show dick's all the time - they just call them politicians......

And Tachyon is right..... Do you really believe that your government hasn't done exactly as it pleased for the last 100 years? I cite the IRS as a wonderful example of your government's adherence to the principal that you have _any_ rights at all. Their abuse of US citizens is well documented.

[Maestr0]

"I guess they'd rather be alive than free. Poor dumb bastards. "
-Pvt. Eightball Full Metal Jacket

[RoadClosed]

Ok, back to my other post.... now that some citizens think the government is spriraling out of control and moving to a totalitarian "regime" and planning to oppress defensless citizens.... who's for gun control?

Oh and as far as tour busses go vs. standing in a train terminal watching the destinations click by as you decide which platform looks good.... one word "EuroPass"

/edit There is a wonderful serious but also tongue and cheek movie regarding N. Ireland and the personal conflicts there. "Everlasting Piece" It's worth a rent or and addition to the collection. Piece mispelled from Peace on purpose.

[Tiger Shark]

RoadClosed:

who's for gun control?

There ya go.... Isn't that Constitution a wonderful thing..... Checks and balances..... <LOL>

[Arcanus Aegis]

We as free people of the United States of America and decendents of the founding fathers of this nation must protect our freedoms from our government's ever growing desire to control all aspects of our society. I do not think that we should have to give up some of these freedoms to 'protect' ourselves from terrorists or terrorist threats.

I do believe that we need tougher laws punishing those who would use the web to spread child pornograph, deal illegal drugs and commit fraudulent acts against private individuals. We must find a balance though.

[bballad]

I relise that some of you , especaly the birts here fell that citizans should be subserviant to the goverment, and have no problem with police randomely stopeing and searching you to "keep yo safe" or detaining people for no reason with no public trials.I feel that the goverment should serve the people. A perfect example of the difrence here is "a clock work orange". There are two difrent endings to that book, in the british ending the main caricter is brainwashed by the goverment and turend into a "respectable", "productive" member of society, brits see this as his redemption and ultimate sucess. In the american version the brainwashing fails and he continues to be an indavidual, americans see this as his sucess.

personaly I would rather be free then live in a totlitarian stae.I guess this would make me closer to the palistinians and the IRA then the isralies and the brits, I have no problem with that. People who live in a society that is so numbe with fear (propagated by the goverment) and so content to do what their "rulers" tell them to are not something to aspire too. So they let you have a few more **** in england...I guess they figured out a way t okeep your mind numb.

Has the goverment infringed on our freedoms before...yes..and as informed citizans it is our job to call them on it and hold them accountable. You se in this country the polititions are supposed to serve us not the other way around.

As for freedoms being removed, well thats exactly what started this thread. Reporters being secratly threatend and illigaly harrased. If we lose freedom of the press we lose every thing. Do you think water gate would have been exposed if reporters where treated like this during nixons time? Face it the current govermnt in the US has no respect for its citizans or this countries long held traditions...its time that they where ousted.

Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
RoadClosed:



There ya go.... Isn't that Constitution a wonderful thing..... Checks and balances..... <LOL>

I am assumeing the lol at the end was a laugh of sarcasim bucause you seem to support a administration that is trying to dismantal the constitution and remove all of the checks and balances?

[Tiger Shark]

BBallad: Ok..... I have to ask this..... I have refrained for so long but now I see that it is a perfectly legitimate question where you are concerned. How friggin' dense are you?

especaly the birts here fell that citizans should be subserviant to the goverment

What, because we allow our police certain powers to do things in certain situations we are "subservient"...... Grow up. Our legal process is as long and as involved as yours and it favors the defendant just as yours does. On the other side if a policeman/soldier kills a terrorist on the streets of Northern Ireland or wherever they are automatically charged with murder and have to defend their action in a court of law.

I would rather be free then live in a totlitarian stae

I dunno.... the last time I looked we vote in and out our morons just the same as you do..... That doesn't seem like a totalitarian state to me - or you live in one too...... Go to www.dictionary.com and find out what the word means please.

So they let you have a few more **** in england...I guess they figured out a way t okeep your mind numb.

Hmmmm.... **** stimulate my mind..... you must be of another sexual persuasion.... That's ok... each to their own....

and as informed citizans it is our job to call them on it and hold them accountable. You se in this country the polititions are supposed to serve us not the other way around.

And.... for the third time in this thread I take you back to a comment I made at the beginning:-

These are strange times in the world, they call for strange measures. Understand that and ensure that the strange measures of today do not become the governmental habits of tomorrow. When the time is right again you have the opportunity to vote in the people that will return your rights - if they don't - vote them right back out again.

What is it about that comment you don't understand?

BBallad, I have tried to have a reasonable and sensible conversation with you.... It has become clear that you are incapable of either..... feel free to woffle away as you wish..... I'm not going to bother responding to your inane crap in this thread in the future......

Bye.....