Aclu

[TheRepublican]

I fully support being able t say ones dyaties name in court, I do not support that court (a representitive of the goverment) pushing a deity chosen by the goverment on me, neither dose the aclu thats what they fight. I support being allowed to say the origional pledge of allegance, I do not support adding religious refrences to the pledge in an attempt to better controll the populace ("under god" was added in the 50's as an attempt to controll the populace, and its a clear violation of church and state.) I also support the right of an unborn child to have a chance at life, but I relise that people who don't share my opinion shouldn't have thir rights ignored.

Where to begin...

I assume that you are referring to Alabama's Judge Roy Moore, who displayed the Ten Commandments in his court. If you are, then you are being ridiculous. Just because they were displayed there doesn't mean he was pushing his religion on people. Judge Moore was just expressing his own beliefs, he didn't hand out Bibles at the front door and sprinkle everyone with Holy Water! Would you have me kicked out if I wore a "Jesus Rules!" T-Shirt to school? I sure hope not! Besides, the founding fathers did not wish for us to become a secularist state, they just didn't want us going around lynching Jews or Budhists or Muslims or Christians!

Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia (Query 17, “Religion”):
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. . . .”

The Pledge of Allegence is not meant to be a tool for control. It is just a way for Americans to express their Patriotism. Again, no one is forcing anything here. You don't have to say it if you don't want to; you won't get in trouble if you don't either.

So, you allow a woman to have a right to take away an unborn child's rights? Yet, killing a child who is already out of the oven is completely wrong? Sorry to be graphic, but what's the difference between sucking the brains out of a unborn child vs. sucking the brains out of a 6 month old? None, they are both morally unacceptable.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

[Tedob1]

the term "under god" was added to the original pledge of allegiance in the 50's as an anti soviet union statement. taking it out is not un-american but one thing i don’t see mentioned anywhere is that this country promises freedom "of" religion not freedom "from" religion.

the aclu has outlived its usefulness. they can do things like keep prayer out of schools and bibles out of the hands of vicious court clerks but they cant stop drug testing. did you know employees of payless shoes are forced to take drug tests....to sell cheap shoes. they fight for ridicules things like the child abuser that demanded to wear her muslim veil in her driver’s license photo. they present an arena for new lawyers to practice their bullshit that all.

[bballad]

Originally posted here by TheRepublican


Where to begin...

I assume that you are referring to Alabama's Judge Roy Moore, who displayed the Ten Commandments in his court. If you are, then you are being ridiculous. Just because they were displayed there doesn't mean he was pushing his religion on people. Judge Moore was just expressing his own beliefs, he didn't hand out Bibles at the front door and sprinkle everyone with Holy Water! Would you have me kicked out if I wore a "Jesus Rules!" T-Shirt to school? I sure hope not! Besides, the founding fathers did not wish for us to become a secularist state, they just didn't want us going around lynching Jews or Budhists or Muslims or Christians!

He was a repesentitve of the state goverment, as such any statement by him in his role as judge is a statement by the state, posting the ten comanments at court is a vialation of churchand state, and it is alabama endorsing which ever version of christianity his commandments where from (there are numerous versions of the commandments.) If you wore a jesus shirt t oschool it would be a compleatly difrent issue (assumeing that you where not a teacher or a member of the administration) as a private indavidual you could wear whatever you wanted (assumeing it wasn't obsean...but obsenity laws bother me) if it was a public school (a private school could make up whatever rules they wanted on dress code). If the school made you take it off you could sue them for violations of your civil rights and probably get the aclu to handle your case.

So, you allow a woman to have a right to take away an unborn child's rights? Yet, killing a child who is already out of the oven is completely wrong? Sorry to be graphic, but what's the difference between sucking the brains out of a unborn child vs. sucking the brains out of a 6 month old? None, they are both morally unacceptable.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

[/quote]
This is a sticky issue for me, I am personaly agenst abortion and would counsle anyone I knew not to get one. But untill the chiled could live outside of the mothers womb Ido not see it as a distinct indavidual and the rights of the mother would superceed its rights.

Originally posted here by Tedob1

the aclu has outlived its usefulness. they can do things like keep prayer out of schools and bibles out of the hands of vicious court clerks but they cant stop drug testing. did you know employees of payless shoes are forced to take drug tests....to sell cheap shoes. they fight for ridicules things like the child abuser that demanded to wear her muslim veil in her driver’s license photo. they present an arena for new lawyers to practice their bullshit that all.

First a point on your prayer FUD. You can pray at school, any student that wants t o(assumeing a public school) can pray when ever tehy want and as long as they are not being detramental to the learning enviroment(ie distracting the other students) the school administration/teachers must allow it to happen. If you or your child tries to pray and the school stops you this is a violation of your civil rights and as such you can get the aclu to handle your case. The drug testing isn't something that the ACLU should deal with unless its the goverment randomely testing the populice, a pivate company can do whatever tests they want (as long as they are not legaly discriminatory) to decide employment.

[TheRepublican]

If the school made you take it off you could sue them for violations of your civil rights and probably get the aclu to handle your case.

School does restrict what you where, nearly every school has somthing called a "code of conduct" where a dress code is usually defined, whether that be school uniforms or what "inappropriate dress" is. Yes, the ACLU does defend cases like this. One kid in Wyoming or somewhere wore a "Bush: International Terrorist" shirt, which the school told him to take off. He sued with the ACLU's help. Other than that, I've seen no other instance of the ACLU defending someone who was the victim of an unfair dress code, but I do see kids taken to the principals office every day at school for "inappropriate dress". See a slight bias?

I am personaly agenst abortion and would counsle anyone I knew not to get one. But untill the chiled could live outside of the mothers womb Ido not see it as a distinct indavidual and the rights of the mother would superceed its rights.

No one should have the right to end a life, with the possible exception of there own was in danger. If a mother does not want the child, she should give birth and put it up for adoption, which I believe is a more humane way of handling things.

[/|Glacier|\]

The ACLU, is really no different from the Nazi's or the KKK. There is really no difference.

[bludgeon]

Originally posted here by TheRepublican
No one should have the right to end a life, with the possible exception of there own was in danger. If a mother does not want the child, she should give birth and put it up for adoption, which I believe is a more humane way of handling things.

I agree!!! Err, heh heh, no I don't. Lets throw some more unwanted children into the system. Yeah that's the ticket. I love hearing people make this argument. Have you ever been in a group home? How about a foster home, ever been placed in one? Had any friends placed in any? It's not fun, even if your Foster parents are kewl. The argument you make says, lets make people have babies that are going to be started off on the wrong foot to begin with, IMO. How many babies are there in the world that are orphans now? Why the heck would you want to demand that people add to them?

I agree with Tedob about the ACLU, could be a much better organization.

~edited cause I fux0r3d tedob's nick

[CXGJarrod]

Originally posted here by TheRepublican
Yes, the ACLU does defend cases like this. One kid in Wyoming or somewhere wore a "Bush: International Terrorist" shirt, which the school told him to take off. He sued with the ACLU's help. Other than that, I've seen no other instance of the ACLU defending someone who was the victim of an unfair dress code, but I do see kids taken to the principals office every day at school for "inappropriate dress". See a slight bias?

Hmmm... very different on the ACLU site. Search for dress code and you will find the same results:

Case 1: ACLU and 18 Texas Families Sue to Stop 'Prove Your Religion' School Uniform Policy
http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty...?ID=7876&c=139
Case 2: ACLU Defend Texas Student Who Protested Rights Crackdown After Colorado Shooting
http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/S...?ID=8626&c=159
Case 3: ACLU Asks Court to Halt Mississippi School's "Gang Symbol" Ban on Star of David Necklace
http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/S...?ID=8659&c=162
Case 4: ACLU Assists RI High School Student Barred From Mentoring Children Because of Her Hair Color http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/S...ID=11450&c=156

[TheAntiChrist]

Nice to see such an objective forum for spreading ideas...

First of all this forum is completelt dominated by obviously patriotic US citizens. It is impossible to discuss anything of merit anymore in here without being labelled a nazi, radical left winger, commie bastard or 'god' save us a liberal.

[CXGJarrod]

Originally posted here by TheAntiChrist
Nice to see such an objective forum for spreading ideas...

First of all this forum is completelt dominated by obviously patriotic US citizens. It is impossible to discuss anything of merit anymore in here without being labelled a nazi, radical left winger, commie bastard or 'god' save us a liberal.

There are plenty of us who are not patriotic or think very poorly of the US government. Less than the patriotic americans though.

I would like to say that only a few users are doing the name calling, and I think it will die down eventually.

Also, why dont you start a topic about some other world problem besides the USA? I am sure there are plenty of people from around the world who will spark a debate.

[Ennis]

Originally posted here by CXGJarrod


Also, why dont you start a topic about some other world problem besides the USA? I am sure there are plenty of people from around the world who will spark a debate.

Thats a great idea, read your post in Site Suggestions and I agree, so maybe we could get some discussion going get an international flavour if ya like