PATRIOT Act II

[Tiger Shark]

Tony:

One has to question how much the tail was wagging the dog on December 13. Saddam Hussein was "captured" (translation= hand-delivered in a drugged stupor by his true captors) which completely altered headline news for the next week and drew all of the attention away from the fact that Bush also chose that auspicious Saturday to sign into law a vast expansion of the "Hey- the Bill or Rights is for wimps. If you like the Bill of Rights you must be a terrorist" PATRIOT Act. Now, in Dubya's defense, Congress passed the bill a couple weeks prior and observant constituents should have already taken notice and raised the issue with their respective congressman and senators. But, it still seems more than a little suspicious that they chose to seemingly "orchestrate" a media event with the capture of Saddam which in effect buried this news story.

Your flooding of the Cosmos section with your anti-Bush garbage this morning is quite acceptable - that's where you are supposed to spew your drivel and I have no problem with that. This was posted in the Misc. Security section which is probably the appropriate place. However, since you placed your own "observations" above the "meat" of the post you turned the whole thing into another piece of meaningless political crap that belongs in Cosmos.

Please resist your urge to place your own mindless, "Bush is out to rule the world", conspiracy theory political crap "editorials" in posts that are placed in security related forums. They do nothing but start a political thread in a forum where it is inappropriate to do so.

If you don't get enough replies and people stroking your left wing, liberal ego because it is hidden away in Cosmos rather than being a "front page" item then I suggest you go and feed your political appetite in Usenet.

'Nuff said???????

[Ennis]

Tiger you can always ask MsMittens or Neg to move this thread to Cosmos, politically I agree with tony on a lot of issues but I realise that at AO we have too many opposing views for me to start threads like this though it is important to discuss them.

[Tiger Shark]

Ennis:

Tony is a big boy now and has been here long enough to know what is appropriate and what is not. He should have made the correct decision in the first place. I'm not going "running to teacher and telling on him" but he does need to be more appropriate in his choice of venue or his choice to politicize what might have been useful information. He took his own thread and made it garbage.... His problem..... It's a reflection on his own inability to control himself, which, in turn is a reflection wholly on himself and his character.

As to moving it..... Naaaaah..... let the world see it.... no skin off my nose.... I just don't want him making a habit of posting this kind of crap where it isn't supposed to be. I come here for security related issues not mindless "Bush is out to get you" Boogieman stories.... There's a whole Internet full of that $h1t.......

[Ennis]

Ok twas just a suggestion.

[tonybradley]

Tiger- I have said it before and I'll say it again: I am a Republican. I voted for Dubya. However, his decisions and actions since taking office are almost polar opposite to his campaign promises and I think that is worthy of addressing (nevermind personally offensive). I do in fact realize that it is the way of politicians in general and not something Bush has cornered the market on.

As a Republican, I tend to follow the rules reflected in the Republican playbook so to speak which state:

I BELIEVE the strength of our nation lies with the individual and that each person’s dignity, freedom, ability and responsibility must be honored.

I BELIEVE in equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, sex, age or disability.

I BELIEVE free enterprise and encouraging individual initiative have brought this nation opportunity, economic growth and prosperity.

I BELIEVE government must practice fiscal responsibility and allow individuals to keep more of the money they earn.

I BELIEVE the proper role of government is to provide for the people only those critical functions that cannot be performed by individuals or private organizations and that the best government is that which governs least.

I BELIEVE the most effective, responsible and responsive government is government closest to the people.

I BELIEVE Americans must retain the principles that have made us strong while developing new and innovative ideas to meet the challenges of changing times.

I BELIEVE Americans value and should preserve our national strength and pride while working to extend peace, freedom and human rights throughout the world.

FINALLY, I believe the Republican Party is the best vehicle for translating these ideals into positive and successful principles of government.

I do not agree with the theory that if you question the Bush Cartel it makes you left wing or liberal. Calling him on the fact that he blatantly breaks many of the basic tenets of being a Republican makes me a good Republican if you ask me.

I posted this in the security forums instead of cosmos because the contents of the PATRIOT Act and the PATRIOT Act II directly reflect on computer and information security unlike many of the things I have posted in Cosmos which only reflect on Americans losing more and more of their freedoms to closed door secret sessions in the name of "national security" that have done little or nothing to improve national security or win the "war" on terrorism. The fact that it smells of political impropriety is a wholly separate subject.

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security ~ Benjamin Franklin

[Tiger Shark]

Tony: The "implied" content of your post was fine and I think it was valid where it was.

Regardless of your political "leaning" your initial editorialization was unnecessary and inappropriate in the _security_ related forums. That's the stuff that is reserved for Cosmos and I, for one, would appreciate it not hitting the front page because it only starts non-security related discussion.

Post the _information_ where it belongs..... Save the editorials for Cosmos or Usenet.....

I believe that's fair and in the true spirit of AO......

[Highlander]

These people do not learn....
Ask a Jap-American who was unjustly imprisioned for looking
like the enemy during WWII
Then why were the German Americans never put into prision
Because they looked like us.... WASP's
Ask the Black Americans what happen after the Civil War then
until the 1960's and beyond what happened...

[ttau]

Congress can write any law it chooses, it still must stand up to judicial review for constitionality when someone is brought up on charges as a result of these laws.
I am almost ashamed to say I am a republican, but I guess the saying is true,
"power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[phishphreek]

HAHA! Its finally on the news! And, Tony, they are bringing up the same points that you were... its amazing how much they don't pay attention until its too late....

[linuxalien]

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257

I don't think you should go cracking into computer systems but this law where you got life in prison with no parole for cracking is a tad bit much. Ashcroft is a bit power mad.

I'll never vote republican again.

linuxalien