Where Do I Start (Different Newbie Question)

[Outer_Heaven]

Damn man, you guys are good. I posted this reply an about an hour later I already had four responses. I appologize for not responding sooner, but things keep popping up, but I don't want to seem rude to you all who have taken the time to give me their input to help me out. Thank you very much. But you guys have given me so much useful input, I don't even know where to begin to respond, lol. But to that one cat, secure_lockdown, I am going to Monroe Community College starting this spring, then going to transfer to a 4-year school which I haven't decided for sure yet, but right now I am thinking Rochester Institute of Technology.

But what is the signifigance of Linux, I mean, I know it is an OS like Windows, but how come it has such a high demand for people certified in Linux, why is it preferred, and is it hard to learn? lol, again, bare with me here, I have no formal certifications here and everything I learned I either learned on my own from messing around with PC's or my wife tried teaching to me but I was usually being too stubborn to pay attention or didn't work on it enough for it to stick to me.

But one thing I noticed from a couple of you guys, and what my sister, and my wife told me, cause they are both working in it, is to start off in technical support, but I was kind of not too thrilled with that idea cause both have told me the horror stories about dealing with idiot's and a**holes comlaining and being rude. But from listening to you guys telling me this, too, I guess it would be a great help in helping me learn all aspects and just deal with the BS.

But from what I am gathering here, I should place a big emphassis on courses such as criminology and psychology, which I was figuring before since I know or have heard that there is a profiling process in tracking down hackers, and that I also need to learn courses that will teach me the judicial and legislative aspects of it as well. But what I am also hearing is some saying not to concern myself too much with programning, and others saying I need to concentrate on that, which I am guessing I should stay up to date with it in this every changing world or get left in the dust. Also, as I learn more and as school goes on, will they tell me when and what courses I need to take such as criminology, psychology, computer security/forensic investigations, and linux forensics, to do what I want to do, or am I gonig to have to pretty much figure that out on my own? And what other forensic courses do I need to look for or should I take?

And how far in depth am I or would I have to go with the criminology and psychology? I mean, I am not going to have to get an associates or bachelors in those, am I? Or might I have to over time? And of those courses, are there any that go specifically toward computer security? I mean, I would rather not have to learn about chronic bed wetting or the mind of a serial killer, but then again, I guess it all plays a part of it, and if I have to know it then I have to know it.

And if I was to or decided I wanted to work for the FBI or CIA tracking down terrorist groups or cyber-terrorists, and contacted them, what should I ask them or say to them? I want to track down terrorists and cyber-terrorists and what are your prerequisites for me to getting into that area of your agency? Or would I just ask them what their prerequisites are for getting in, period? Cause I have talked to an FBI agent before at a job fair they had near my base at Camp Pendleton cause I wanted to do HRT (Hostage Rescue Team) at one point in time, and was told that I need a four-year degree no matter what you want to do there.

This website will ban me for asking bad questions?

But again, I thank all who have taken the time to provide their input and opinions, and for baring with me. I spent this past year and a quarter of last living in the Philippines with my then girlfriend, now wife where we opened up an internet cafe, which are really big over there, which she pretty much ran cause she's got a BS in Computer Science, but she tried to teach me things like reformatting a computer and networking, but I didn't apply myself then, cause I still wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do. Decided I missed the US, and it was taking too long for me to get into school there, sold the shop, moved back here in mid-October, and now know that this is what I want to do because it has always interested me. But again, much thanks for helping me get my foot in the door, and for your patience, time and cooperation to all you who have provided insight.

[|3lack|ce]

This website will ban me for asking bad questions?

You seem to be reasonably intelligent, and your questions so far are well thought out. Make sure you post in the correct forums and you shouldn't have any problems.

And how far in depth am I or would I have to go with the criminology and psychology? I mean, I am not going to have to get an associates or bachelors in those, am I?

Psych, no. Criminology/Criminal Justice, I would say continue through your licensing...so probably. Once again it's a matter of 'what do THEY want?' - by all means go to the company or agency you're intending to apply to and ask them!

But what is the signifigance of Linux

Linux is the os that's most popular with those who are 'in the know' on things. It's also one of the easiest platforms from which to conduct operations along the lines of what you'll be doing. It's quite similar to Unix, with a few variations. The shining glory of Linux is that everything is open-source, meaning you can custom tailor your programs to fit your needs. It's not too overly difficult to learn, provided command line doesn't scare you. Even if it does somewhat, Linux has built-in GUI's to help ease the transition, but ultimately you'll need to learn the command-line end of it to be effective.

Hope that helped!

[edit] spotted this one on re-read:

Or would I just ask them what their prerequisites are for getting in, period?

Yes. CIA/FBI both have recruiters very much like the Corps did. The trick is finding them - your first step should be to visit their website (cia.gov or fbi.gov) and email them. I would put it like - "I'm wanting to train for a position in cybercrimes enforcement/forensics, and would very much like to join (CIA/FBI) on completion. What courses would best suit your requirements?" [/edit]

[secure_lockdown]

Originally posted here by Outer_Heaven
But what is the signifigance of Linux, I mean, I know it is an OS like Windows, but how come it has such a high demand for people certified in Linux,

whoever told you that is trying to sell you education. Linux/Unix/*nix are very hands on and knowledgable breed of IT person - they have very little time for marketing mumbo jumbo - which unfortunatly - IT certifications ARE. they have no bearing on your ability to do the job. I posses them only to get past HR screeners - but I still have to fight with both hands and feet to prove my abilities to senior IT staff i don't know.

please refer to my post in ICertify re: Linux certification.

http://www.icertify.net/index.php?na...ewtopic&t=2498

from reading the rest of you post - i think you might want to focus on computer forensices etc areas - particularly with local police departments. it a specialized skill set and job type.

SL

[AxessTerminated]

http://www.nsa.gov

I plan to apply to the NSA after college, I've wanted to work for them since I was 11 or 12. It's just always been of real interest to me.

Although you may not want to specifically apply for the NSA (which you can do online), you can find requirements and other such things on the site.

A_T

PS, if you have a dial-up connection, click the link to view the HTML site, not the flash site.

[Outer_Heaven]

Hey, you guys have been great man. You've all been a very big help to me. I've learned more and gotten more information from you guys in the last two days than I have in the past month and a half of really trying to gather up information and knowledge to try and get me on the right track of doing exactly what it is that I want to do, including using career councilors and advisor's at the college I am about to attend.

And much thanks to those who provided the links to those agency websites and for helping me format my questions for their prerequisites. I will get on that tonight and email the spooks and post what they have told me, whenever they respond, to bounce it off you guys to see what you think of it, if it makes sense or not and for any additional input you might have.

And I went through all the information that was provided here and wrote down all the stuff I didn't know, understand, or have a clue about, and checked out a couple other forums posted and did the same, so, I'm gonna be google usin mofo looking up all the things I wrote down. But, I'll research whatever it is I'm looking up, if it brings up something else I don't understand or am not clear about, I'll research that, too, all the way down until I grasp the concept of it, and if I still don't understand, you'll hear from me.

One other thing I was wondering about, that I have always known or heard about but don't totally comprehend, I mean, this is a vague question, but is just something that I wanted to be made more clear to me is, I know math is a huge part of computers and in programming languages and such, but how is math and numbers and equations and formulas then turned into data. How far in math will I have to go for what it is that I am going to do? How does Math 160 &161 Statistics I & II fit in to this and what is it? I am looking at the course description right now, and can grasp an idea of what it has to do with, and it says minitab statistical software will be uses, which makes me feel some what relieved.

And about this AO site, how do they award you points here? Based on what?

[secure_lockdown]

the most i use math for my work is binary for subnetting and the usual excel stuff. sometime i do stats comparisons on performance, bandwidth throughput, disk usage - but not often.

[TheSpecialist]

And about this AO site, how do they award you points here? Based on what?

Its a popularity contest based on your posts, your avatar, how sexy you look in your profile, how funny your signature is, blah blah blah...

[|3lack|ce]

Math - In the most basic terms, a computer is nothing more than a grouping of switches. Each switch has 2 positions - On, represented by one, and Off, represented by zero. We use binary (base 2 mathematics) in computer science to describe this. A 1 or a Zero is one bit. 8 bits of information creates 1 byte. From there it gets interesting because the different combinations that comprise one byte of code can equal a character, and you get into code strings after it. Learn or brush up on counting in base 2, and in base 16 (hexadecimal), which is our other mathematics, usually used when discussing specific memory locations, or working in or with assemblers.

The math courses you'll be required to take to earn your degree will help you in other terms as well, in that they teach you logic, and problem solving, both of which are essential in the IT field. Statistics is a wonderful thing to know if you ever get into programming (you will, I promise, no matter what path in IT you choose). It helps in understanding what is needed to accomplish certain tasks within a program (counters and loops, and conditional statements just to name a couple). Remember that only the computer speaks hex and binary, and whatever programming language you'll be working in will handle the translation to those things for you, so you'll only worry about straight math/algebraic equations depending on what you've set out to accomplish, but to get the degree, you'll have to know them at least well enough to count.

Don't sweat the math too much however. I know it's a real bitch going from the real world back to school, and remembering all those things you had to learn in HS, and re-learning how to study. The college you'll be attending does too. If need be, take a remedial math course or three until you get back up to speed, I promise your GI bill won't run out before you finish.

AP's - I award ap's for things that mark as 'outstanding' in my point of view. Since I'm not a newbie, but not yet a senior member, my ap's count in the middle range. You can usually tell the amount of ap's a person can award by the number of dots by their name. Since there's a new option of only partially agreeing with someone, I can vary the amount of ap's I assign by changing the option in the ap assignment box. (I agree only 50 percent, so they only get half the ap's I can award.... or, they were only half an idiot, so I'll only neg them 3 instead of 6). Depending on how many ap's you have now, you'll either award a maximum of 1 or zero ap's should you decide to do so. As your ap's accumulate, you'll get more to award.

This leads to an interesting question I've never encountered, however... Someone who's close to being banned has red dots by their name. Does this mean that when they neg someone it awards positive ap's, or do they just award zero?

[TheSpecialist]

they just award zero

[Outer_Heaven]

BlackIce, were you prior military? Well, I can't get this or don't know how to get this quote thing to work and I'm afraid if I do what I was about to do I'll resubmit this whole forum. But yeah, it sure is a shock going back to school after all these years. It's like every where I go I keep thinking, wow, civilian life, everyone seems so laid back, on their own program, doing whatever they want to do, dressing how they want to dress, no rules and regulations, dragging their feet when they're walking, walking slouched over and mumbling when they talk. LOL, and when I see this, I mean I heard it before, but it is like everytime I see this, that is when I realize how really brainwashed I have become. I don't know, probably just the military's thing, or at least the Corps thing on anti-individuality. But it's cool and still shocks me when I see this cause I am still in a state of disbelief to the ammount of freedom I have and am like, Wow, you mean I can just go and do that? I don't have to request permission and I won't get my ass handed to me? If I don't want to do something I can just tell them no? lol But my first opinion of college was, and still is cause I been going there talking to career councilor and advisors and took the placement test, it looks just like Fin high school cause you got your homies hangin out with the homies, the freaks hangin with the freaks, and your pretty girls hangin with the pretty girls, and I was just like, jesus, I guess the sh dont change.

But anyway, yeah, that is what I am going to have to do, start back with refresher courses for math. I took the practice placement exam for the school I'm going to that I got offline and was like, damn, I lost more than I thought I would have since I last been in HS, cause the only algebra or formulas I have done since leaving HS was for adjusting impacts of artillery rounds and hight-of-burst. But I did a lot better than I thought I was going to do when I took the actual test. So, I am having to start off in elementary algebra, but hey, at least I aint starting off with one plus one's and two times two's, lol.

So basically math in computers is like learning a foriegn language, which is one thing that comes fairly easy for me. At one point I knew four languages real well, including how to read, write and speak in Korean, and started learning to read Arabic over in Iraq thanks to a translator, so, I think I will be able to pick up programming languages, too. I guess in a way it is the same concept in the sense that it has set patterns and rules, and if those rules are borken it would cause the computer to mess up, because the computer wouldn't be able to understand what it's being told to do, does that sound about right?

But how would you actually apply straight math and algebraic equations to fix a problem? And what kinds of problems could it fix, for example. Like if there was something wrong with a computer, how would you determine it needed an algebraic equation to fix it, and are there set equations for each problem or area or groups of problems, or do you start with a general idea of what that equation might or should be, then start tweaking numbers and stuff then trying to apply and reapply the solution you came up with until it works. Or do they have software that will tell you what the equation should be, and you try it, and if it doesn't work go back and mess with it till it does work? And where in the computer would you acutally go to and type in this equation or formula to make it work right again? Does it actually look like an algebraic equation like ab(c3 X xy) +2= 14, and do you enter it in as such, or does it look something like those number and characters you get when you open a corrupted file or something? Where in a windows OS would I go to do this. I mean, I'm not gonna go entering stuff or messing with crap I don't know, I've crashed a couple computers before at that internet cafe I had, lol, and had to have our techs come bail me out, so I've learned that lesson. I was just wondering where it is and what it looked like on a windows OS.

I did send those emails out to the CIA and NSA, tried looking for anything, any address I could contact the FBI for an inquiry, ran around their website and links to local agencies, but found no address specifically for the FBI whatsoever. Finally found a link to the Regional Computer Forensics Laboratory, which I guess is a part of or works for the FBI, found an email for the RCFL, so I sent them an email add. So, now I guess I gotta wait for them to respond which I can only guess how long that will take. When you want something or need something from the gov., they'll take their sweet ass time, but if they want something or need something from you, man do they run.