Suicide

[MrLinus]

MsM - sorry to hear about your mom, look what happened to yo and here im complaining about some little problems.

That's all just perspective and experiences. When I was younger, my life was very similar to yours in that what seemed insurmountable to me was rather mundane to someone else's experiences. Don't assume that your experiences right now are minor. The point was more that you can get out of this.

Suicide might be an indication of mental illness but keep in mind that's a generic term that can range from depression (which is what it sounds like) to full-blown pyschosis. Talking with a professional would be worthwhile.

WHat you think of suicide religiously, is it a sin ? or is it not a sin ?

Before answering that, one has to ask if one believes in God and the "Word of God" (or gods or however an individual defines it). AFAIK, only the Catholic faith deems suicide as a sin. Does that make suicide a sin? I dunno. I see some benefit to the idea of assisted-suicide. I've seen Alzheimer's. Not something I want to go through.

Personally, it's a cop-out at dealing with issues. We don't want to face what's painful and ugly in our lives so we look for what is the easy way out. Thoughts like "The world would be far better without me" tend to cloud our own judgement from seeing how much of a difference we do make, minor or major.

[cacosapo]

WHat you think of suicide religiously, is it a sin ? or is it not a sin ?

For, its not. Maybe its the oposite way: if someone goes on that desperate way, God will take care this one in a special way. Because if someone just give up of the most precious gift from God, why Got wont help him/her to "see the light" instead punish him/her?

But its just My God (I dont belief in God as a punisher)

[Phat_Penguin]

Without wanting to sound too flippant ...

Suicide = a permanent solution to a temporary problem - that little saying brings it into perspective for me without any religious or moral overtures being placed on this subject.

Of course, there are cases where terminal disease and pain are an issue but I feel thats a complete different ball game when ones quality of life no longer exists.

[©opy®ight]

Yeah i was thought it was a sin (yeah im a catholic) but i don't think it is, should be your choice whether you live or die.

Suicide = a permanent solution to a temporary problem

Never heard that quote before, i'll keep it in mind. Sounds reasonable !

[Egaladeist]

I'd hate to be the religious bone-crusher here but...there is no such thing as sin in any religious sense of the word...however there is " justice " , wrongs, however escapable, and rights, however overlooked, are not without effect even after death...there is an inescapable order( justice ) that we may avoid in life but not in death.

Suicide is a sin if it falls under the category of " an injustice "...as to that ...I do not know. Personally, I do not believe ending one's life under certain extreme circumstances would be unjust.

If a man was dying on a battlefield without hope of recovery would it be unjust to kill him to put him out of his suffering...certainly not...therefore it is not a sin...to be a sin it must be "unjust"...and you can apply this to each case or situation.

[MrLinus]

What is your religious background?

From Merriam-Webster Online

Pronunciation: 'sin
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is -- more at IS
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT
2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

It is an injustice but is viewed as an injustice against the deity or "laws of God" so to speak. It isn't however against Man's law (unless aided). So you are just redefining, IMO, sin.

As an interesting twist to the whole question of whether suicide is a sin. Since it's not worded in the Bible but rather other texts (albeit specifically philisophical/religious) how can the Catholic faith deem it as being a sin since the Law of God (as told in the Bible) doesn't identify it? (You could quote this passage: "(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? {17} If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple." (Source)

From this blog


You see, back in those days, there really wasn't much question of whether the various gods existed, even the Christian god. But gods were local and limited in power. By impressing others with the power of one's god, one could recruit new worshippers. Of course, you would think that, since the Christian god is sitting by and allowing his followers to be eaten by lions, that pagans woudn't be too impressed. But, in the world of irrational belief, it instead impressed the pagans that Christians didn't turn from their faith rather than being eaten. "That must be one powerful god," the pagans said, "to have followers willing to die for him like that." Rather than the more logical, "If their god is so powerful, how come he doesn't save his followers from the lions?"

[Egaladeist]

Actually I'm not redefining the definition of sin...

"1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT
2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God"

I am saying that the above definition is wrong and merely religious fancy. That the one true definition of sin is to commit an "injustice", and has nothing to do with reprehensible behaviour, wasting food, shortcomings, or any violation of church doctrine...or personal opinion...if it can be considered to be unjust it is wrong...if it cannot be so defined then it is either not wrong or not understood.

Religion will be the death of god.

[MrLinus]

That the one true definition of sin is to commit an "injustice"

Hrmm... so if I think that killing flowers is an injustice, then it's a sin? Or slaughtering cows for food an injustic then is it a sin?

To use your example:

If a man was dying on a battlefield without hope of recovery would it be unjust to kill him to put him out of his suffering...certainly not...therefore it is not a sin...to be a sin it must be "unjust"...and you can apply this to each case or situation.

How do we know when the line of "without hope of recovery" has been passed? If I'm dying of an uncurable cancer and decide to kill myself, then is that a sin? Particularly if there is a very tiny slim hope of a cure being found?

To my understanding, your definition is merely personal rather than a religious view. Religions are, by definition, created by Man.

[Egaladeist]

Hi MsMittens,

I think I said that it's not open to personal opinion...and your examples are just that. If you look at what I said from a serious perspective I think you realize your examples have no merit.

In an effort to more clearly define what I'm saying...we are talking about death, more specifically suicide...and whether or not it is a sin...our opinions don't matter...what is injust ( sin ) will be met with as will that which is just ( benevolent )...everything else is dogma.

To use your example...if you think killing flowers is unjust...and I kill them...if it was truly unjust I will be punished for it...if not, I wont. Our opinions don't matter.

If it is " unjust " it is a sin...otherwise it isn't.

Key words..." avoid in life but not in death "..." I do not know "..." personally "...

as for my comments concerning the battlefield...I do believe that there are some things that a reasonable person could conclude as being just or unjust..and I do not believe in the senerio I described that any reasonable person would conclude that it falls under the category of an injustice....but even that does not make it so.

To even further the decline of religion...I will go on to say that not everything that we do that is wrong is a sin...to be a sin...again, it has to be unjust.

[whatthe]

I'm not the greatest catholic out there. I tend to pick and choose what I want to abide by but from a religious stand point 'Thou shall not kill' includes your self. Suicide is the only thing you can't be forgiven for because your dead. Everything else you do wrong in life you have a chance to fix or make ammends for.