Hi zencoder,

You can consider me naive if you will...you can even state that no one will agree with me and that is fine too...my purpose is not to convert the masses to my way of thinking...and I accepted a long time ago that most people simply don't care anyways.

Your disagreement is neither here nor there because no one can say with absolute certainty what anything is or is not...which is why Epictetus once said " It is impossible to get a person to understand that which he thinks he already knows, the first step to knowledge is, therefore, getting rid of thinking one knows what one does not. "

Here's an exercise for you on knowing...

There once was a man who held an apple in his hand and asked his pupil what it was...
the pupil said " It's an apple, Master. "
" Do you not know that a name is but a designation that we give objects for the purpose of communication and mutual consideration? Yes, we call this an apple...just as your mother called you Peter...but your mother could have called you John and you would be the same...neither Peter nor John...I ask you again, what is this object I hold in my hand? "

To make this rather long exercise short...we know how to use things, manipulate things, how they work, and to what we can apply them...but we really don't know what anything is...other than the false knowledge we retain from the designation of names. Just because you know that the object over there is called an apple and that you can eat it, and make a pie from it, doesn't mean you know anything substantial at all.

Eg