Man gunned down on Underground (London)

[cacosapo]

Originally posted here by Egaladeist
I'm sorry...but I don't see death as an evil thing...a horrible outcome...death is a ' natural ' part of existence...unavoidable...innocent/guilty everyone dies...death is not a tragedy

You wont think like that when you come here and policeman "thinks" that you are a drug dealer and shot you after asked you "Você é um traficante? Responda! Diga se não eu te mato"...
Death is a tragedy. And you cant call this one as "a natural part of existence".....
Other day one of the Asian countries (Malasia?) comndened a drug dealer (a brazillian) to death. A lot of guys (britts included) claimed "This is unfair. No death penalty for him". At least he had a fair trial, on a Court. Not on the street. Not by a desesperated policeman, running, with a weapon in hand.



I didnt saw the policeman. I dont know even if he was using a uniform. I hope the he was. At least he can say "the guy saw me, with police uniform. I showed him my badge, and asked him several times to stop. He didnt complained. So ive killed him".
Believe me, if someone shout "Police, stop", with a weapon in hand, without an identification, i will run.
Why?
Because here, in Brazil, all cops use uniforms.

[the_JinX]

Just a quote:

The death of one man is a tragedy..
The death of thousands is a statistic.

[Egaladeist]

Hi cacosapo,

Actually that wouldn't bother me at all...the only thought that would cross my mind at that time would be who would raise my girls and how well would they be taken care of...

and by natural death I was refering to the fact it must come to all of us...I don't know if he was meant to die that day anyways and neither do you...maybe he would've died anyways...do we really have a say?

I save my sympathies for the living...and accept the fact I will die...I can only hope it will be as quick and not spend my last days withering away in a hospital bed with tubes up my nose...given the choice I'd gladly take the bullets.

Eg

[Tiger Shark]

Cacasopo:

For all your "we do it right in Brazil" you might find some of these to be enlightening.

Simply put, Britain is one of the last countries in the world where there is a history of police officers gunning _anyone_ down in the street. Furthermore, it is one of the last countries where every Tom, Dick and Harry carries a weapon. Thus, if a man wielding a gun yells "Stop, Police" at you in front of numerous witnesses in London on _any_ day, let alone the day after the second attempt to kill as many people as possible in the transportation system of that city it is nothing more than common ****ing sense to stop and place your hands in the air.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for this man - what he did was pure stupidity - he almost deserves a Darwin if you ask me.

[cacosapo]

For all your "we do it right in Brazil" you might find some of these to be enlightening.

Sorry, but you got my words quit wrong. I never told that we do the things right here. On the contrary, we DID it wrong. Thats why we are like this now. Excessive "Police brutality here?". That is just because we, in the past, gave this rights to them to "fight against the bad guys".
" is he an assassin? kill him before the court. he deserve it anyway"
"is he an terrorist? kill him"
"is he a comunist? kill him"
"is he poor or black? kill him"

And now we have this here. Police use to kill people just because they are poor and they run when they shout "Policia, Pare". We dont trust the police. In fact, sometimes is better here to trust the bad guys. At least they dont shot us in the back.

I was talking about "consience". We, here in Brazil, know that is WRONG. And we are trying to change that (but its hard to revert)

And you, on the other hand, are walking exactly thru the same path - just give cops enough "freedom" to protect us.

A question: Who will protect you against cops when the terrorists cease to exist? because the cops will already taste "the freedom on action", and it will be hard to take back that...

[alamuru420123]

I'm sorry...but I don't see death as an evil thing...a horrible outcome...death is a ' natural ' part of existence...unavoidable...innocent/guilty everyone dies...death is not a tragedy

Death is not an evil thing. It is a natural outcome of life. But when someone gets killed for the wrong reason, it is not the same thing. One way to wash our hands off everything is to believe in the divine karma and that fate decried that he be killed for something he didn't do. But that isn't how I'd like to think about it. I am not afraid of death as to how it will affect me after I die. I am afraid that death will come to me before I get a chance to do the things that I want to do.

The guy who got killed had a family. He might have had a girlfriend. He might have been thinking of getting married. He might have had lots of dreams that were on the verge of getting fulfilled. Maybe the only place they could materialise was in UK (a free country?). When the police asked him to halt, maybe his only thought was ... "if they catch me, they'll find out my visa has expired and deport me... i've got to escape".

A million possibilities.... these are just a few. None of us can tell what his intentions were. We can only surmise. Sorry eg, but I just can't agree with your "anyway death is inevitable" kind of reasoning in this case. No one has the right to take a life, and that is my firm belief.

Simply put, Britain is one of the last countries in the world where there is a history of police officers gunning _anyone_ down in the street. Furthermore, it is one of the last countries where every Tom, Dick and Harry carries a weapon.

That's true. That's probably why the administration has gone completely berserk with this shoot-on-doubt attitude. They aren't used to such large scale disasters happening every other day. Maybe that's why the terrorists chose london in the first place.

I have nothing against the people of the UK or the USA, but can you deny this....

1. following 9/11, USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq (along with UK) for the sake of self-protection. In tech terms, if I get a virus and it has my isp's gateway ip, I simply take a sledge hammer and beat him and every one/thing in his office down.

2. following 7/7, UK starts a shoot-on-doubt policy for anyone who it feels is a suspect. There is a trojan which is eating up my bandwidth. I delete anything that even tries to connect outside including nvupdate and yupdater.

Well folks, I've rambled a little too much. I'm a little more emotional than I thought I was. But please don't mind me and before I go....

I have nothing against the people of the UK and the USA. Please do not take this post personally

[RoadClosed]

This guy was running towards the train. Don't forget that.

[Egaladeist]

Hi alamuru420123,

Sorry eg, but I just can't agree with your "anyway death is inevitable" kind of reasoning in this case. No one has the right to take a life, and that is my firm belief.

Death is inevitable...and I do believe that it is not only acceptable to take a life under the right circumstances but it is also in some cases a moral obligation.

I realize that is not the ' popular ' theory...it is nevertheless the correct one!

Eg

1. following 9/11, USA attacked Afghanistan and Iraq (along with UK) for the sake of self-protection. In tech terms, if I get a virus and it has my isp's gateway ip, I simply take a sledge hammer and beat him and every one/thing in his office down.

A simple clarification:

Afghanistan was attacked to get OBL and the terrorist cells operating in Afghanistan, who were behind 9/11...when OBL escaped the matter became the Taliban and the democranization of Afghanistan...
Iraq was/is another matter entirely.

[Kthln01]

The guy who got killed had a family. He might have had a girlfriend. He might have been thinking of getting married. He might have had lots of dreams that were on the verge of getting fulfilled. Maybe the only place they could materialise was in UK (a free country?). When the police asked him to halt, maybe his only thought was ... "if they catch me, they'll find out my visa has expired and deport me... i've got to escape"

MAYBE, but he would have been breaking the law. People dwelling in and/or visiting a country should (and in most cases) are aware of laws. This is common sense-you're running toward a train. The police tell you to halt-what would you do?

Obviously if your intent is to commit a crime, keep running. When you choose this option on top of the fact that the train station was recently bombed, you run the risk of getting shot, unfortunately.

US law says that without threat or a visible clue that the suspect has or is going to defend himself with a weapon, the police cannot shoot. Believe it or not, whether or not he was involved, I dont think there are people in the UK losing sleep over his death.

[RoadClosed]

Personally I care more about the hundreds of "accidental" deaths we hear about avery month. This week, a couple who dies in a car crash passing through on their honeymoon and a baby girl who was left in the car too long on a 100 degree F. day. This guy was a direct contributor to his own demise. Not only did he run toward a train as a suspect, he also crossed a barrier.