Hackers are all B@#t@rds

[rubytuesday]

[i]

I don't think those classify as hackers
once again, i don't wanna explain what a hacker is
but i think the word is somehow over used everywhere in wrong, sometimes good meaning

so we need now to make some new words
like computer criminals and such stuff [/B]

Somebody beat you to it a long time ago their called 'crackers' and they wear a black hat, real 'hackers' don't break into systems or engage in malicious activities he/she earns respect not only for technical and coding skills but for being unselfish like sharing his/her knowledge with others, volunteering to help out by administering mailing lists moderating message forums keeping the peace between members doing the ugly work like kicking out the flamers,tards, trolls, helping to debug open source software like Linux or Freebsd, publishing very useful information and doing other things that are really mundane.

Attitude and ones actions are always silently noted by the community you earn points for keeping your ego in in check, not going on power trips to be top dog, not feeding trolls who look for trouble on message boards, being self reliant at solving problems on your own without always bugging others to spoon feed you the solution of what to do lazy and carelessness loses big points and respect.

[Egaladeist]

Hi rubytuesday,

That's all well and good...unfortunately I never heard you mention PERMISSION...and that seems to be the problem.

I've heard how people throw the term around and the term HACKER does not seem to have a CLEAR and UNIFIED MEANING to everyone.

If you say that a HACKER is someone who gains access ONLY with the PERMISSION of the target...then...that would define a HACKER as someone with ETHICS...

however, if you say a HACKER can access property WITHOUT the OWNER"S PERMISSION then he's a criminal...period!

Just as if he/she was to break into another person's home WITHOUT their PERMISSION!

It amazes me how people justify BREAKING IN to someone else's property....and then have the audacity to claim they have ETHICS!

Eg

[rubytuesday]

[i]

If you say that a HACKER is someone who gains access ONLY with the PERMISSION of the target...then...that would define a HACKER as someone with ETHICS...

however, if you say a HACKER can access property WITHOUT the OWNER"S PERMISSION then he's a criminal...period!

Just as if he/she was to break into another person's home WITHOUT their PERMISSION!

It amazes me how people justify BREAKING IN to someone else's property....and then have the audacity to claim they have ETHICS!

Eg [/B]

Hi,

I agree any time somebody opens a window and goes in someones house without the knowledge of the owner they are breaking the law they use to say whenever people went into other systems without consent if you didn't touch anything it 'was exploring' then you crawled out the guys system and left without leaving a trace but that's alot of bull hockey it's trespassing. It's the same when somebody comes across a crackers mess do you enter the system or stay out? use common sense and don't go in there and for heavens sakes don't touch the admins files he won't be happy even if you leave him a note on his terminal.

It's the younger people doing all the evil out there they meet their friends on IRC and chat who tell them how to be a script kiddie then they download tools and attack systems for kicks their Parents set no limits on these tards and everyone suffers under their worm and ddos assaults. Jail isn't the answer they have to be reached early and steered away from the darkside (just my opinion).

[Juridian]

Never mind the goverment or crime sponsored groups.

[Egaladeist]

hi Juridian,

Government and crime sponsored groups...well...we don't have to ask if they have ethics do we

hi rubytuesday,

Absolutely!

I'm old-school...if you want something you ask for it...the worst that can happen is they'll say ' no '...and no harm no foul!

Why do these ' HACKERS/CRACKERS NOT ASK?...because they know that if they ask for PERMISSION most of the time they're going to be shot down...so they circumvent the person's authority and go in WITHOUT PERMISSION.

That's a criminal act!

If they had ETHICS they would ask and then respect the wishes of the OWNER of the PROPERTY.

There is no justification in circumventing another person's RIGHTS!

Eg

[My SuperMan Ego]

real 'hackers' don't break into systems or engage in malicious activities he/she earns respect not only for technical and coding skills but for being unselfish like sharing his/her knowledge with other

No. "unselfish?" How about this... a person who has grown up and no longer feels the need to dub themselves crap like "l337 h4x0r", doesn't feel the need to mentor a bunch of children in exchange for some type of momentary gain... these various forms of honor or pristiege that just does not truely exist. Not as long as there are people around willing to listen and take what you know and once agian... to share it for the same reasons, to look smart &/or cool infront of others.

If they had ETHICS they would ask and then respect the wishes of the OWNER of the PROPERTY.

You can't point at a few changed bytes in-memory, on disk, or a loss in bandwidth and tell me something along the lines of whats right and wrong. It is however usually considered by many to be "common sense" to form your own sense of that.

[Egaladeist]

hi My Superman Ego,

You can't point at a few changed bytes in-memory, on disk, or a loss in bandwidth and tell me something along the lines are right and wrong. It is however usually considered "common sense" to be law abiding or what-not... or atleast to some degree.

Yes...yes I can...you seem to have missed the same point as these HACKERS/CRACKERS...it's the fact you are THERE...you have BROKEN INTO someone else's property...you have VIOLATED THEIR RIGHTS...it's not about whether you changed anything or not...

If you see someone coming through your window are you going to think that's acceptable behaviour...even if all they want is a glass of water?

If you're thirsty you knock on the door and ask for a glass of water...you come through the window you better hope the person inside doesn't have a lighter, or he may set your head on fire.

Your attitude that it's OK to BREAK-IN to someone else's property WITHOUT their PERMISSION as long as you aren't going to do any real harm is EXACTLY the problem ...this is EXACTLY what these HACKERS think is OK and it's how they justify doing it...

but you CAN"T JUSTIFY IT THAT WAY...

Eg

Trying to explain to a HACKER why it's wrong to break into another person's property WITHOUT their expressed PERMISSION...is like trying to tell a theif why it's wrong to steal...it's a waste of breath because they are incapable of grasping the concept of right and wrong.
One of my friends growing up was this guy who would constantly steal things...nothing big ( a watch, a camera, something he could fit into his pocket, or hide comfortably inside a jacket )...and he never thought it was wrong either...he always had the excuses lined up..." stores can afford the loss " " they'll write it off on their taxes " " I'm sure they're insured " etc...
that is until he had something stolen...then it was the biggest crime he had ever seen...he was outraged that anyone would be so rotten as to steal from him...how could anybody do this to HIM...
funny isn't it how ETHICS only matters to these people when they become the VICTIMS!

[shals]

egala

you are being too harsh on the hackers,man you should look at the contribution they are giving to the security department of various countries.with the help of them only many big theft are being prevented.HACKERS only prevent ous frfom the CRACKERS.understand the thin line between hackers & crackers.

[Egaladeist]

Hi shals,

I'm not being harsh...and I'll tell you why...

even if no one would give a HACKER permission what's to stop the HACKER/CRACKER community from setting up their OWN boxes with all the fixes and exploit them for weaknesses, etc...the simple fact is there is NO excuse for it...if their true aim was to help by exposing weaknesses, etc...then

they could set up their OWN network and try to HACK/CRACK each other's machines and then report their findings.

There is NO excuse to compromise a system or network WITHOUT PERMISSION.

Eg

[hackerjacker]

Hackers are not b@#t@rds! I understand that maybe some hackers use their skills to wreak havoc, but I use my skills to get my passwords back, and test the security of my network etc.