New site about security?

[steve.milner]

Originally posted here by Aspman
I think what My SuperMan Ego is maybe getting at it that it's 'bad form' to call yourself an expert.

It implies you rate yourself as 'better' than others and not just in IT.

It's a complement to be called an expert but arrogant to call yourself an expert.

It's a cultural thing and certainly true in the UK.

If anyone asks me if I'm a 'computer expert' I tend to say 'I know a bit'.
I consider myself knowledgable in IT but not an expert.

I must be an arrogant git.

I consider myself an expert in certain computer areas...

I'd better be, cause I'm paid to be.

Steve

[Katja]

Hmmm... Let's put it this way then. I've spent half my live doing all kinds of things with computers. If that doesn't qualify me a little bit as experts in computers (general) then I've probably wasted all that time. And well... Arrogance... Yeah, one of my flaws. Then again, some of my friends do consider me an expert in computers so I think I've earned that title. Besides, I didn't just consider me as an expert. I consider almost all members here to be experts in some way in relation to computers. This compared to people who can't find the on/off button of a computer, of course.

The guy who first invented the wheel was the best experts in the automobile sector back then. At least he knew the best shape for the wheel... It's just a relative term in my opinion.

[Egaladeist]

Hi katja,

Aspman is absolutely correct...and this is why you had a few problems before...poor choice of language...as a result you came across as arrogant and self-important...if you're still here a year from now it may even become an endearing quality...

but for now it's just annoying.

Arrogance itself is not a bad thing...it's what separates the Jordan's and the Wood's and the Bond's from the rest of us...but...

Eg

[My SuperMan Ego]

It starts already on the homepage. If you're a complete newbie in the computer world and you're suddenly confronted with computers because e.g. your child gets one from school, a site like AO would be extremely complex for those people. Simple things like conference rooms, avatars, forums, bookmarks, buddy lists, antipoints, profiles and even the log in/log out options. If you're experienced with computers and a bit smart, it's easy to just discover what those things are. If you're a complete newbie with the average IQ of 100, those things can be pretty complex...

There are still quite a lot of people out there who know absolutely nothing about computers and who don't really want to know more about them either. But for whatever reason sooner or later they might have to work with those "horrible things". That's not easy, if you're new to it.

Anyone can browse around this site based on... reading ability?

Hmmm... Let's put it this way then. I've spent half my live doing all kinds of things with computers. If that doesn't qualify me a little bit as experts in computers (general) then I've probably.

And yet you target the illiterate to make it appear that you're some how better or in your own words above average. Good job, Katja.

[jxrry59]

a few points:

1. anyone that is simply worldly wouldnt go to the govt. for advice on anything, i think we can all agree on that

2. i have been here and learned a lot here but there are sections and threads that are beyond my comprehension, not because my grasp of the language is poor but because a. its stuff that really doesnt interest me and isnt important to me, security-wise (at this time) b. its just way beyond my skill level at this time...........having admitted this my skill level isnt something to sniff at.....depending where yours is anyways.....the ones that proclaim themselves knowledgeable simply because they work in the field, well aol techs do to, say hi to your PEERS for me.....but what i learned here a long time ago isnt about what you know but about gaining the skills to learn how to solve the problems....theres simply too much to know (except for you aol like techies) so some of what i learned here was where to seek out answers.........Google is always a good place to start

[Katja]

True, eg. I am arrogant enough to admit that I'm arrogant. But again, I mentioned "we, experts" and not "me, expert". I consider you and aspman to be experts too. And so is Steve, who bravely admits he's an arrogant git. Almost all members here are experts in some part of the computer industry. Thus, in general we, the members, are computer experts. (Even if your knowledge is limited to maintaining your personal administration within Excel.)

All I am saying is that there are many people out there who are avoiding computers as much as possible. They are the ones who get nervous from all those ATM machines and who never can remember their pincode so they write it on the back of their bank cards... There are people who buy a keyboard and monitor and then think they own a whole computer. I remember that someone broke into some school about 6 years ago and took away several monitors while leaving all the desktop PC's, thinking the monitors were the most expensive parts. (Probably thought they were all Mac's...) Considering how bulky and heavy those monitors were, it's not real smart...

And although we might be "experts" with computers, it still doesn't make us any better than others. So stop thinking that way, ego. Being an expert just means you know more about a certain topic. It doesn't mean you're better than someone else in general.

There are computer illiterates out there and sooner or later they will use a computer for something. Maybe just to get cash out of an ATM machine. Or maybe a mother who buys one for her child to help his studies at school. What do they know about computer security? My own grandmother can't even remember the pincode of her bankpass so she has written it down on a piece of paper in her wallet. (Yet she can remember that she needs to read it backwards, from right to left...) The things I do with my computer seem miraculous to her. It doesn't make me a better person than her. (At least she's a better driver than me because she's been driving nearly 50 years without a scratch and I've already had two minor accidents with my car so to me, she's an expert driver. )

[warl0ck7]

And although we might be "experts" with computers, it still doesn't make us any better than others. So stop thinking that way, ego. Being an expert just means you know more about a certain topic. It doesn't mean you're better than someone else in general.

The point is ego has nothing to do with computers , it is just a tool, a car mechanic
is more skilled in fixing cars than dealing with computers, but that does not make him
inferior or superior

[Aspman]

Thats a grand leap of faith to call me an expert
I might just be expert in BS.

'Expert' is one of those words like 'Hacker'. They bring a lot of baggage with them and a weight of expectation depending on the context in which they are used.
I don't like them or use them often for that reason.

Unless you are sure you are an expert relative to the audience you are writing/speaking to, it's best not to place that title on yourself.

[mohaughn]

I've spent half my live doing all kinds of things with computers.

I usually stay out of these kind of conversations, but I found this one to be funny. I usually take this kind of comment to mean something from somebody who is 40, 50, 60+ and has spent 20+ years doing something. Not sure that half your life, at your age is something to be bragging about.. Just my thought though... I think the reality of what you don't know vs. what you do know is something that hits you in your 20's.

Steve.Milner probably has 15 to 20+ years of work experience, so he probably does have the qualifications to be called an expert in certain areas of computers. But is knowing how to use an OS, and knowing how to configure things in that OS, really being an expert? I think there is a certain amount of experience that you have to have before you can really be called and expert. And a lot of that experience is work experience.

I've never met an HR person that is interested in how long you have been using computers in your free time. I've seen plenty of people come out of college thinking they are experts just to get a smackdown when they realize they may be knowledgable, but are far from experts.

At least she's a better driver than me because she's been driving nearly 50 years without a scratch and I've already had two minor accidents with my car so to me, she's an expert driver.

Good driver yes, expert driver? No. Expert driver would be Mario Andretti, Michael Schumacher, Kimi Raikkonen, et. al...

[Katja]

The Oxford guide to concise english says: "expert.
n. A person who is very knowledgeabout or skillful in a particular area.
adj. having or involving in specialized knowledge or skill."

So am I arrogant in assuming that members here are experts? Are you saying that AO has some non-experts too? In my opinion, operating a modern computer is a special skill which many people in this world still can't understand. And I'm not talking about illiterate bushmen from Africa or whatever. I'm thinking about the elderly and those people who never have been interested in this stuff to begin with. I know several people who are amazed about my computer skills. They're not that special compared to anyone else in the same branch but for those who are unfamiliar with computers, it's really amazing.

If computers were magic then I'd just be an amateur magician. But many people will still be amazed by the smallest tricks that I can perform.