bush vetos stem cell research

[foxyloxley]

so you can bet politician's are taking note...

but as it's Bush's second term HE wont be up for the nomination will he
He's probably scared that stem cell research could bring back RONNIE

[OverdueSpy]

Now hang on here. Why is it that when someone stands on their principles your guys lable it as "imposing morality" and claim to be "offended"?

I can easily turn this around and say that signing the Embryonic Stem Cell Funding Bill would be equal to "imposing immorlity" on religious individuals. In this case, having the U.S. Government to collect tax dollars from individuals that find this situation morally repugnant; and funding the harvesting of unborn human fetuses for scientific research with these tax dollars is equally offensive, if not more offensive, to most religious people as opposed to those offended by not having the choice.

And Bush did not outlaw embryonic stem cell research. He said that the government should not fund embryonic stem cell research. If a private company wants to perform these actions then that is ultimately between those individuals participating in the program and GOD.

And for those of you that immeditely want to cry out Foul - Separation of Church and State - (in conjunction with) - You Can't Legislate Morality. That argument is old hat and defunct, simply because the vast majority of laws are based upon morals to start with. Morality IS legislated on a daily basis or there would be very few laws in existance to break. So start thinking hard and find a new slant to debate this issue. You can do it!

[Evil Moo]

I don't agree with Bush's veto either; Stem Cell is a brilliant scientific opportunity. While I disagree with the Veto, I can't say I'm all that angry for it. At the time he was re-elected, the majority of Christrian USA was against such measures. That demographic, actually accounts for the majority in this nation (saddly).

May we conjecture that their feelings have changed on the subject, sure. Can we be certain? No. That's how democracy works, even if only through a proxy republic.

[dalek]

Now hang on here. Why is it that when someone stands on their principles your guys lable it as "imposing morality" and claim to be "offended"

How can you be sure it is "his" principles he is following, suppose for a minute it's his conscience, even better, maybe it's those who backed him in the previous elections and he is now just getting around to rewarding them, I would lay odds, that a few more controversial rewards to this section of society will be forthcoming before he exits and leaves a "holy" mess for those that follow?

and funding the harvesting of unborn human fetuses for scientific research with these tax dollars is equally offensive, if not more offensive, to most religious people as opposed to those offended by not having the choice.

As I see it "abortion" is still a legal "choice" in both of our countries, maybe more so in some places and not so in other's, regardless it happens.So just throw it in the garbage and your conscience is clear....as long as there are going to be unborn human fetuses, then at least put them to good use, and as long as the feds sponsor other areas of research that doens't nescessarily float your boat that's okay...like maybe providing tax dollars to the tobacco industry so their R & D can figure out how to make cigarettes that don't cause cancer, hhmmm that's okay, or provide huge funds to the folks who create plutonium enriched shells for the Army, nobody cares that the radiation levels of these things can be lethal when in powder form...there are a lot of areas both our countries provide tax dollars too that can be considered questionable and ethicaly wrong....my question would be, why did he focus more on this then anything else?

[OverdueSpy]

How can you be sure it is "his" principles he is following, suppose for a minute it's his conscience, even better, maybe it's those who backed him in the previous elections and he is now just getting around to rewarding them, I would lay odds, that a few more controversial rewards to this section of society will be forthcoming before he exits and leaves a "holy" mess for those that follow?

Ok. Granted, this could be an ulterior motive. My general statement still applies though. When someone is offended by a religious persons principles the religious person is often villified; but if the religous person is offended, then that individual is supposed to be accepting and considerate of the non-religious persons actions/demands. It does not add up.

As I see it "abortion" is still a legal "choice" in both of our countries, maybe more so in some places and not so in other's, regardless it happens.So just throw it in the garbage and your conscience is clear....as long as there are going to be unborn human fetuses, then at least put them to good use, and as long as the feds sponsor other areas of research that doens't nescessarily float your boat that's okay...like maybe providing tax dollars to the tobacco industry so their R & D can figure out how to make cigarettes that don't cause cancer, hhmmm that's okay, or provide huge funds to the folks who create plutonium enriched shells for the Army, nobody cares that the radiation levels of these things can be lethal when in powder form...there are a lot of areas both our countries provide tax dollars too that can be considered questionable and ethicaly wrong....my question would be, why did he focus more on this then anything else?

Sure abortion is legal in both of countries, despite my personal views, but I still maintain that the government should not be using my tax dollars to pay for taboritions by potential mothers. What would your reaction be to the government providing funding to research a program to sterilize, medicate, and study convicted rapists?

Your point is very valid about grey areas, government, and morality. Which is why morality is a very important charecterstic to be considered when electing government officials.

As for Bush focusing on this issue above all others... keep in mind that congress passed the Bill, not the President. Yeah the speech issue was over the top, but hey it was the first Bill he has vetoed and if he did not give a speech then he would have been criticized for ignoring the press. <shrug>

[dalek]

I would rather see Tax dollars spent on Stem Cell Research regardless of the morals or ethics then say this:

Bioweapons research deserves watchful eye




The United States and its allies have a noticeable record of supplying their enemies with the means of their own destruction. In the 1980s, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent, with government authorization, strains of biological agents laying the foundation for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. Nevertheless, while the whole world awaits the conclusion of the United Nations inspectors' investigation in Iraq, a more troubling concern confronts us on the home front.

The risks the United States faces from within its borders should be of equal concern to foreign ones. The anthrax scare shortly following the 9/11 hijackings is a reason why more attention should be paid to attacks originating within the United States. Five people died in the October 2001 anthrax attacks, including two postal workers. Eighteen other people were infected by the disease. White House press spokesman Ari Fleischer declared that federal investigators had concluded that a skilled microbiologist with access to lab facilities could have produced the anthrax used in the mailings without a vast military or government apparatus.

This is a good reason why bioweapons activities sponsored by the U.S. government merit close attention. The strain of anthrax responsible for those deaths very closely resembles a sample that the Army was studying at Fort Detrick, Md. These types of top-secret military bioresearch labs conduct research that includes modifying biological agents into offensive weapons and creating delivery systems. It's everything you need for biowarfare.

The assumption that these facilities are secure and pose no threat overlooks important concerns. Any scientist who works in such a program would have knowledge of lethal biological agents and delivery systems. Whether they would use that information with a malicious intent is debatable. However, it is clearly in the United States' own interests to limit its own bioweapons research, and not just those of other nations.

Source

If you had a choice which one of these would make more sense? or be deserving of your tax dollars?

[er0k]

just the good ol boys.. never meanin no harm.. thats all i have to say

[Evil Moo]

Good question. Who is to guard the guards?

[Relyt]

Granted, I’m painting this with a pretty broad brush, but the message is the same…

Just imagine all the medical isles in the Super Market being empty or other commodities taking their place, drug companies, research centers, cancer treatment centers, and so on; no longer required….

Despite our hopes and the humanitarian side of the issue, I believe you and I will never see any additional cures period. Only an increase in treatment facilities, more drugs for the symptoms, requests for more research, and the like. Money rules and… there’s no money in cures! So all along they play with your heart strings…

The billions of dollars spent being redirected for clothing and feeding the poor, or cleaning up this cesspool we have turned our environment into, etc...not likely.

[Aspman]

I don't think stem cells are taken from aborted foetuses. They're from unused fertilized cells used in IVF. So were not talking about harvesting cells from corpses. These are foetuses yes but only in the earliest stages Where cell counts are in the dozens or hundreds.

Stem cells can also be harvested from adults, generated from other cells (that's new, don't know if it's common practice) or harvested from post birth placenta and umbilical cord blood.

Has Bush blocked all stem cell research or just embryonic?

there’s no money in cures!

I don't agree. There is no money in you being dead either.

The next big thing for the drug companies will be longevity therapies. So you are paying to stay alive indefinitely. They'll cure you of all your diseases but you'll still have to pay to stay alive or to stay fit and not become a geriatric.