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December 14th, 2006, 09:42 PM
#71
Do we mean perimeter, or end as in time?
Those cannot be separated. The end of time signifies the boundary of the perimeter and the permiter signifies the end of time. Time is dimension of space and with no permiter there is no advance of space, thus no time.
Last edited by RoadClosed; December 14th, 2006 at 09:45 PM.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
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December 14th, 2006, 09:43 PM
#72
Okay, here is the Straight dope on the big guy, well the little guy anyway's
Levity is alway's welcome in any universe...
PC Registered user # 2,336,789,457...
"When the water reaches the upper level, follow the rats."
Claude Swanson
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December 15th, 2006, 05:19 PM
#73
That is a very interesting article. Have to admit I don't understand the whole detailed picture of how they came up with the number that the universe could be 156 Billion light years wide. I get the basis of it however like most of what we know about the universe it comes from extrapolating data from peering into the past via background radiation and perceived expansion rate today.
It is also interesting that according to the author's observation of cosmic background microwaves, there is no evidence of a finite universe as predicted. It doesn't rule out a finite universe, it just adds more support to an infinite universe. Given that the universe is only about 13 billion years old and light from the big bang is already 78 billion light years from our position, and given that recent observations of galaxies indicate another accelerated expansion, I lean toward infinite.
At any rate, according to our perception and our perception a billion years from now, any theory is infinite.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
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December 15th, 2006, 05:35 PM
#74
The concept that we know as "time" is simply a product of the big bang. Much as electro-magnetism and gravity.
I am not quite sure where you got this information on American researchers finding the "end of the universe"
Can you give more details on this or perhaps cite a source?
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December 15th, 2006, 05:55 PM
#75
Hi
The concept that we know as "time" is simply a product of the big bang. Much as electro-magnetism and gravity.
Now, that's an ...interesting claim. Could you elaborate on this?
Translated to an illustration, this claim corresponds to the following:
"The concept of 'longitude' (having in mind a GPS) is a product of a car.
Much as the internal working of a combustion engine and the abrasion
of the tire."
RoadClosed, this is for you 
Considering the Universe is expanding faster than the speed of light
...how the universe could possibly expand faster than the speed of light?
Cheers
Last edited by sec_ware; December 15th, 2006 at 06:00 PM.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
(Abraham Maslow, Psychologist, 1908-70)
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December 15th, 2006, 06:14 PM
#76
time is not a part of reality. It is just an idea that we have come up with. Time is the product of human beings not the big bang !
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December 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM
#77
time is not a part of reality. It is just an idea that we have come up with. Time is the product of human beings not the big bang !
Every thing is a product of reality through human observation. Including time. Time does not exist by itself. It exists in relation to 3 dimensional space. It is a dimension of a single continuum. Something we humans call space time.
Time as we make it started with the big bang. If we cease to exist tomorrow, time will still exist to an observer somewhere else. Not to us. Not to our reality but that does not mean it ceases to exist. Time was here before man. Man named it.
Last edited by RoadClosed; December 15th, 2006 at 08:57 PM.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
-
December 15th, 2006, 09:17 PM
#78
Whoah sorry for the double post didn't see the other posts.
The concept that we know as "time" is simply a product of the big bang. Much as electro-magnetism and gravity.
I am not quite sure where you got this information on American researchers finding the "end of the universe"
Can you give more details on this or perhaps cite a source?
Yes time is a product of the big bang. It is influenced by gravity "force" in classical physics. In fact one could say the opposite and be more accurate. Gravity is but a curvature of space and with that time. Without space or time there could be no gravity. Moira cited the source a few post back.
...how the universe could possibly expand faster than the speed of light?
The answer is literally under your nose and in between your atoms.... space.
And the expansion of it's emptiness. Space (not the normal view of space as a medium for space pirates, klingons and the Final Fontier) expands faster than light. Many times faster. And the limitations on the general and special theories of relativity are related to a local observation or frame of reference. So galaxies can "move" away from us at slow local speeds but appear to be moving faster than light because the space in between us is expanding much "faster" than light.
We will reach a point where the distance of a object is further than the time light can take to burn an image in our retinas. And it will cease to exist in our frame of reference and thus our reality. Even though we will know it was there ... and IS there as long as someone can remember. We would only guess as to where it could be however so we cannot know for sure and thus have no concrete reality of it's whereabouts.
//EDIT ... and that was a provoked question
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
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December 15th, 2006, 10:20 PM
#79
 Originally Posted by PacketThirst
time is not a part of reality. It is just an idea that we have come up with. Time is the product of human beings not the big bang !
Exactly. And I'd be interested to know the theory behind the universe expanding at a rate faster than the speed of light. Surely matter can only travel at the speed of light, or it's defying basic physics?
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December 16th, 2006, 12:30 AM
#80
It is not the matter moving at the speed of light. It is the space between them. Man didn't dream up time. He only became aware of it. As he became aware of depth or length. But I would't argue that it couldn't be a way for man to visualize or observe what is happening in his reality. Before Einstein man was only aware of the idea of a logical mechanical universe. The theory of relativity changed man's "reality" into on of relative terms. Terms that included time as not just a perception of passing but of dimension that influences reality.
The cup on your desk is not stationary. It is in a constant state of acceleration. It has dimension to you and dimension to space and time. And you frame of reference to the cup is the only one that matters you you although you are influenced my the particles that make up it's existance, the people that decided it was a cup and the notion from those who told.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
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