Iraq, G. dub, and the long arm of the Army Reserve

[dalek]

According to this book Ch 3 we should be approaching another ice age, but because of man's influence over the last 100 yrs, we have almost reversed the cycle.

http://www.yeomansplow.com.au/priority-one-contents.htm

This book doesn't promote green types or the "Global Warming anarchists" but it does approach it with some interesting facts that based over time has contributed to what we are now experiencing..

There are so many factors involved in the overall scheme of things that a lot get missed and those that have agendas, only focus on what it is they are promoting (Greens vs Big Oil), but if you take into consideration everything you will come away with a better perspective of the whole picture...I would say man is definately responsible for speeding up the process of warming.

[RoadClosed]

One thing that pisses me off... is when people use the term Green House effect they leave out the fact the even with all the gas we pump out it is a tiny percentage of green house gas. They leave out the largest... water. yes water vapor.

But cleaning the air is in all our best interest. I think I posted here before... but I was in London in September and I am AMAZED at the job they have done in the UK to lower pollution. You might not notice living there but I did. The last time I was in London was in 1994 and man... GOOD JOB.

Do we give Blair credit?

[MURACU]

No blair payes cash!
Seriously Road while it is true the gas we pump out is a small % of the green house gases one thing that needs to be taken into account is that they are a recent addition to the eco system. The argument is an old one and is used mainly by big buissness and goverments to justifiy their position. The counter argument is that pumping millions of extra tons of gas in to the atmosphere every year is enought to change the balance of the eco system.

[RoadClosed]

they are a recent addition to the eco system

No argument there. But at the same time there have been higher concentraiton of them before. And they followed temperature increases. Indicating that something else besides C02 causes the cycles. It's all fascinating. I read one study that suggests plants actually do better at higher C02 levels. What I am scared of is us ****ing with the atmosphere and really doing damage. The earth has been here for billions of years through all kinds of cycles. Did you know that commercial greenhouses pump up like 300 percent of normal earth C02 levels?

[dalek]

I think what a lot of people don't know is that all these rain forests or just plain forests, suck in Co2 and give off O2.

It is estimated that Algae produces about 73 to 87 percent of the net global production of oxygen,which makes it available to humans and other terrestrial animals for respiration.[11] Another secondary source of oxygen are trees, trees can absorb carbon dioxide at the rate of 26 pounds per year-especially young trees that are still growing-while releasing oxygen back into the air.

So if we keep polluting the oceans and kill off the algae and keep cutting the trees down until there are none left (because we are not doing enough to re-plant) what does that leave us in regards to making O2...oh right we will have to make it through industrial means, which means we will need to burn oil/coal to run the plant which in turn will produce the Oxygen needed to keep us breathing.....oh the irony....

[RoadClosed]

dalek, plant a tree today.

My local community has a tree program. People who want to plant a tree on the street can get 2 for free. Not only does that help with c02 and 02 in c02 (Oxygen), it helps reduce heat retention in the earth and thus temperature.

Because if we wait for someone else to do it, it's not going to happen. Those people clear land for food. Our own cultures of quilty of it. Most of the USA and England and Europe has been deforested since the 13th century.

Maybe that is the REAL cause? Think about it.

[dalek]

dalek, plant a tree today.

My local community has a tree program. People who want to plant a tree on the street can get 2 for free. Not only does that help with c02 and 02 in c02 (Oxygen), it helps reduce heat retention in the earth and thus temperature.

Because if we wait for someone else to do it, it's not going to happen. Those people clear land for food. Our own cultures of quilty of it. Most of the USA and England and Europe has been deforested since the 13th century.

Maybe that is the REAL cause? Think about it.

It also helps in replenishing water tables, and I do think about it a lot, everytime I see the sattelite images of the rain forests and their clear cutting, as well as our own (British Columbia)and your right Western countries are the biggest abusers of these fragile eco systems down to the point of draining what they feel is swampland (Florida delta river system).

Oh and I do plant a tree but some bastard keeps cutting it down for Christmas...

Actually the land being cleared in the Amazon is not just for food, but it's for mining (gold) and for the timber as well....big corporations still have a hand in it somewhere.....

[brokencrow]

Check out global dimming sometime (google it). Depending on your
location, 10-30% less light is reaching the Earth's surface than 40
years ago.

Particulate pollution is actually shielding the planet from more warming than we're suffering.

[RoadClosed]

In Gore's 8 year doomsday prediction he portrays the earth as recieving more light or energy from the sun because the ice sheets are melting. Sheets that act as huge mirrors to reflect solar energy. Bottom line - I think, we don't know jack **** and if we make ANY rapid change it's going to be like releasing a mongoose on a tropical island. We gonna be fuxed massa.

[Evil Moo]

In Gore's 8 year doomsday prediction he portrays the earth as recieving more light or energy from the sun because the ice sheets are melting. Sheets that act as huge mirrors to reflect solar energy. Bottom line - I think, we don't know jack **** and if we make ANY rapid change it's going to be like releasing a mongoose on a tropical island. We gonna be fuxed massa.

Wait...that seems like the right conclusion but by incorrect science.

If they ice caps melt, there would be more water vapor in the atmosphere, hence trapping more heat. The fact that they reflect sunlight would be irrelavant since they are within Earth's atmosphere.

A good example of this would be when I was in Alaska awhile back ice climbing. We were playing baseball on a glacier while it was raining. However, the glacier was so big that it reflected enough sunlight back into the sky to keep rain clouds from forming. So...it was raining everywhere except for where we were playing--quite sunny actually. Pretty cool, huh?