Stay Paranoid with Paranoid Linux

[nihil]

Hmmm,

does by all means NOT mean that its not already fully implemented and in use since ages.

No danger of that at all............at least here..........the British government haven't implemented a successful computer system in decades. They cannot even provide decent air traffic control (I bet they still have a shed load of IBM 4083s doing the real work)

The main differences are that we have democracies and free market economies. They actually have to prove stuff in front of an independent judicial system. Also the freedom of choice means that ISPs are much more difficult to monitor effectively.

Hey, that "Carnivore" crap never worked for you guys did it?

Anyways, when local law enforcement grow opium poppies outside their front door, I would suspect that they have left me an unsecured node to discuss prices and marketing techniques..............or at least swap seeds (yeah, I grow them as well).............

We have some strange laws

Happy New Year!

[instronics]

I still find it really hard to believe about the 'no danger' part. Please no offense nihil.. but i find that way of thinking a bit 'naive' actually. Arent security orientated people (like AO members) supposed to be a bit paranoid. True... some governments have had their 'hickups' but i believe that those hickups are a part of brainwashing. Just cause they have hiccups like loosing usb sticks does definately NOT mean that they are not 'able' to do some of the stuff that i suspect they are doing. Call me paranoid (my dad hates my firewall settings in our home lan.. hes says that its not WW3 and that i should loose the security) but hey.. im now 34 years old and bored as hell and security (paranoia) is what keeps me going :P

For the record.. i dont trust ANY governments (not even our own (greece)). They just cant be trusted.

Merry xmas and a happy new year to you too my friend

Cheers.

[Cheap Scotch Ron]

While nihil may be correct re: no danger, regardless, it is our responsibility as citizens (and sys admins) NOT to trust... or perhaps in some cases, "trust, but verify".

Happy New Year.

CSR

[IKnowNot]

... perhaps in some cases, "trust, but verify".

Maybe that is what I've been doing wrong:

I believe in
"verify, but don't trust it anyway!"

Happy New Year all.

[nihil]

Please no offense nihil

None taken my friend.............. in fact I might be criticised for advocating "security through obscurity" if anything.

I guess my argument is based on the concept that in the EU and North America there is so much traffic and diversity of providers that monitoring is just not practical?

Also, we have that thing called "democracy" (Democrates? ) which at least nominally requires that justice is seen to be done.

O.K. I don't trust politicians either; but at least they are vaguely accountable in our countries.

Please don't forget that we are going into a World recession............ getting the funding for non-proven technologies is going to get harder and harder, as I see things.

If we really had these sophisticated surveillance mechanisms in place, where are the prosecutions?

[MikioZen]

Given my "reputation" I think at least a few people will see just how silly this is if I of all people say something about it:

Unless you're living in some horrible, horrible place (Like Alabama or something), there are a few things to consider:

Whining about the US govt and how they control the net is sort of like whining about Microsoft going after people who pirate their software... The US govt was not only the funds, but the start it up for the internet as we know it.

Yes, i buy a $.99 cheeseburger and pay the cashier $1.06, who pays the gov't?...

They spent a CRAP load of cash getting the internet going. I think some of us forget what really happened and forget that, even though the US govt has been bashed in the past, and sometimes with good reason, they did fund this thing we all use, and I really doubt they did it as a way to watch what your cooking recipe and surfing habits are.

The gov't also spent a CRAP load of cash getting the roadway system going... you still have privacy there.

Also, for the encryption fan girls who encrypt every document they make.... Seriously, if you want to waste your CPU cycles like that, give me your computer and I'll do something useful with it, like playing DooM or Quake.

Have you ever heard of tech advancement through contest? The reason why security is a hot topic and forever growing field is that it is constantly challenged. I sure the people who cracked the russian's enigma machine during WW2 wasnt the people who said "I wont encrypt my own files because i would rather play DOOM and Quake all day." they probably played around with encryption alot, tried to break other encryption and built off of them to mke them better. Same concept goes here, who knows what will happen in the future maybe some terrorist regime adopts a idea such as this and makes a successful underground network. Someone could use the knowledge playing with paranoid linux to figure a way to infiltrate.

I say this again because i don't think people get it. it is not about politics or morality or justice... its about science, computer security is a science, you experiment and see what you make make your computer do and not do. There is not right or wrong in the computer world when experimenting. You can program a virus as long as you don't distribute it. You can hack... as long as your have permission to. It really isn't about creating a OS to hide from the government it is about learning the about technologies that have the possibility to do so.

[nihil]

If you like messing with that sort of stuff please try here:

http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/an...renz/index.htm

The Lorenz is more sophisticated than the Enigma............both are German.

Whilst the underlying question is one of security you cannot discount politics and justice, as they impact on your personal security and safety.

Scientifically you might make something relatively secure but draw attention to yourself in the process?

Please remember that the whole concept is based on a science fiction novel and some pretty far-fetched coincidences. Like they are using encryption so the chief programmer at the ISP fixes his systems so that all traffic is encrypted. That won't happen in Bejing or Damascus.

[gore]

The gov't also spent a CRAP load of cash getting the roadway system going... you still have privacy there.

They have sats that can see you in your car from space. You have the same amount you can go for with the net.

I sure the people who cracked the russian's enigma machine during WW2

Russian Enigma? Someone fell asleep in history class.

wasnt the people who said "I wont encrypt my own files because i would rather play DOOM and Quake all day."

You port Quake and or DooM to an ENIAC and we'll talk

they probably played around with encryption alot, tried to break other encryption and built off of them to mke them better.

Actually the Nazi army had Encryption already, the US and Brittain were trying like hell to break it.

Same concept goes here, who knows what will happen in the future maybe some terrorist regime adopts a idea such as this and makes a successful underground network. Someone could use the knowledge playing with paranoid linux to figure a way to infiltrate.

Yea, only if they don't learn their lessons. When WW2 was going on and Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, they probably flew back to Japan and had a party about who was awesome and who's the man now. Then the US got mad. But, we didn't drop a thousand bombs.

We didn't drop a hundred bombs

We didn't drop 10 Bombs

We dropped TWO bombs... Game over. The Anola GAY dropped them so the Japanese could understand they were about to get screwed in the ass.

I say this again because i don't think people get it. it is not about politics or morality or justice... its about science, computer security is a science, you experiment and see what you make make your computer do and not do.

That's programming.

There is not right or wrong in the computer world when experimenting.

The law seems to think otherwise. Write a DDOS tool and use it. While you're in jail you'll probably figure out someone does think ther eis a right and wrong.

You can program a virus as long as you don't distribute it.

Depends on country. Not everyone allows "malicious software".

You can hack... as long as your have permission to.

I'm still shocked every time I see this. After all these years saying you didn't know it was illegal probably doesn't work anymore lol. I haven't touched a server or machine not belonging to me or on my own network in over 7 years.

It really isn't about creating a OS to hide from the government it is about learning the about technologies that have the possibility to do so.

That's fine and all, but you're thinking about provacy at a govt level, and money on a 9-5 punch clock level.

Do you really think that the us govt doesn't already have the best hackers money can buy? Hell any doubt in your mind about that only needs reminding about going into space and the rush against the Russians for who'd be on the moon first.

We spent MILLIONS of dollars to create a pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russians used a pencil.

In other words, we won't settle for anything but the best. The Russians were more or less into common sense and "Hey a Pencil works lets use it" as the US was more like "No, we're the ****in USA, we're going in style, I want a PEN up there!".

We made it first and WITH a pen. In other words, if they US govt wanted, they could be doing quite a lot.

By the way, for the record, the reason I respnded was because I have a reputation for being against authority, govt, and a lot of laws I find stupid. But some things, really don't make sense to me, and even I will stand up for the US once in a while.

People all over the plave hate me, **** I'm an American who's family came from Germany.... I'm German American, I get double the hate.

And then I remember the US was the inventor of Punk rock, and Germany....Well, we all know the BEST cars in the World when we see them, and we invented techno in the 50s. Buaahaahahahahha.....Sorry.

[nihil]

Hmmm,

Paranoid Linux is an operating system that assumes that its operator is under assault from the government (it was intended for use by Chinese and Syrian dissidents), and it does everything it can to keep your communications and documents a secret.

That is from the OP's first post

Then we have:

It really isn't about creating a OS to hide from the government it is about learning the about technologies that have the possibility to do so.

I think that there is a slight discrepancy here?..............RTFM?

Russian Enigma? Someone fell asleep in history class.

Gore, please check out that link I posted. OK, I know that you are busy but at least d/l the simulation software to play with later

Actually the Nazi army had Encryption already, the US and Brittain were trying like hell to break it.

A quick Google for "Caesar Code" will tell you that the concept was nearly 2,000 years old back then

There is not right or wrong in the computer world when experimenting.

Actually, there is no such thing as "the computer world" except, perhaps, in the minds of spotty faced little geeks living in their auntie's basements. In the real World there are people with secret police, firing squads and torture chambers

[The-Spec]

Russian Enigma? Someone fell asleep in history class.

Um... they had quite a number of ciphers built around it.

At this point, all I see is a Peanuts style "wonk, wonk, wooooonk, wonk, wonk!"