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[nihil]

Hey! Metguru,

Please don't get me wrong..........Linux can probably get away with this for a while. The old "security through obscurity" argument?

Windows needs it NOW!..........to be honest, it needed it 10 years ago

[metguru]

Yes, just because it is more obscure does make it more secure in general, but it doesn't make specific vulnerabilities go away. Everyone has this idea that Linux is so secure, but its really only because a minority uses it. If you look online you can easily find exploits for Linux that have just been discovered. And I don't have time to constantly be doing research on something like that. Thats why I love Secunia PSI.

It pays off to be paranoid. So even though Linux is "more secure" due to obscurity, I like to know about the vulnerabilities. And i know Linux can "get away with it" now, but its things like that which make Windows, in my opinion, inferior. They "got away with it" for too long, and it caught up with them. For an OS to keep ahead in security, getting away with it just isn't acceptable in my book.

[gore]

Yes, just because it is more obscure does make it more secure in general, but it doesn't make specific vulnerabilities go away. Everyone has this idea that Linux is so secure, but its really only because a minority uses it. If you look online you can easily find exploits for Linux that have just been discovered. And I don't have time to constantly be doing research on something like that. Thats why I love Secunia PSI.

It pays off to be paranoid. So even though Linux is "more secure" due to obscurity, I like to know about the vulnerabilities. And i know Linux can "get away with it" now, but its things like that which make Windows, in my opinion, inferior. They "got away with it" for too long, and it caught up with them. For an OS to keep ahead in security, getting away with it just isn't acceptable in my book.

Ummm, Linux isn't obscure... And if you take out the Desktop Market, Linux has a HUGE Server Market. All versions of Unix do.

In fact, if you look at Windows Server OSs, which are odd because they for some reason have Windows Media Player by default (2003 Enterprise Had this for some reason).... Why the .... Who would WANT Windows Media Player on a Server?

And why would I want to have to reboot servers because a Media Player that shouldn't be there to begin with has a vulnerability?

In the Server world, Unix is still the top. As for security, Unix has had this stuff for some time now. There is one thing I will say about Unix Servers you can't replicate, which makes them MUCH more secure than Windows:

In Unix / Linux, you can pay someone, or, if you're good enough at it, basically strip the Kernel down to nothing, hack the Server you need into the Kernel, and then use the built in packet filtering to drop everything that isn't basic traffic for that service.

Porn sites and govt do this, which is why some of them don't get broken. Basically anything sent to it that isn't, for example, Web Traffic, would be dropped. And even if someone did get something, what are they going to use? There aren't any applications on those, and there isn't even a shell most of the time except a minimal shell to get the machine going.

You can't do that in Windows.

Also, "Security through Obscurity" is the basis of passwords. It has to work once in a while or no one would use them anyway. I can go into a lot of detail why no Unix based OS is obscure, but most people already know this.

I will point out one last thing as to why "Obscure" and secure aren't true:

Apache. How much of the Market does Apache have again? AND you can view the source code? Why isn't it always broken if you can not only look for vulnerabilities in the source itself, but it runs MORE than half the Web Server market? You'd think it would have all kinds of problems if that whole obscure thing was true but it doesn't.

And most servers in general don't run Windows. A lot of companies probably wonder why they are paying through the nose for Windows licenses and then, more RAM and CPU to handle the GUI you can't turn off for a machine that sits on a closet without a monitor anyway.

That's probably one reason Unix will always win on Servers; You can shut the GUI off, or not install it at all. That and you aren't paying 50,000 dollars for Slackware or FreeBSD to install on your servers, and then, if you like a version that isn't supported? Well, on Windows you update or risk getting totally screwed on updates and patches.

On Linux and BSD, you can just pay someone to keep doing this for whatever version you like.

I kind of miss those my OS is better threads heh.

[nihil]

Gore!.............bloody behave yourself young man!

This is a home/desktop thread.........who gives a flying $%$^&* about unix servers or linux or whatever?

[HYBR|D]

[gore]

=o Behave?

Are you going to put me in a corner now?

[metguru]

=o Behave?

Are you going to put me in a corner now?

Haha, I think his birthday may have gotten to him. Speaking of which, it just so happens to be my birthday today.

Anyways, Gore, I understand where you're coming from, and I wasn't bashing any OS. In fact I'm using Windows 7 right now, and I usually don't have any complaints with it. I feel like every OS has its purpose. As far as home users and desktops are concerned, Linux will, in my opinion, continue to be a minority for some time.

[gore]

Everything but Windows is basically a Minority. I mean Mac OS X for example, which, most would agree, is REALLY easy to use, is a neat OS. I don't have a Mac or anything but I got to mess with it once, and it was kind of neat.

Mac OS X did something that every Linux vendor in the World, has tried to do; Take a Unix based OS, (In this case, BSD) and give it not only a GUI, but an easy to use interface, that a lot of people can use. They took BSD, gave it a paint job, and then made it easier to use than most OSs. That's really something I think.

I also have Windows 7 now, and I like it. Most of my desktops still run Linux or BSD though, because I need it. Windows doesn't have a lot of the stuff I need personally. Which is weird because most other people will tell you they can't use Linux or BSD because it doesn't have the stuff THEY need lol.

Also:

Happy Birthday
Bon Fett
Alles gute zum Geburtstag
.... That's all I can remember for now lol.