Win8 Final Beta Out

[gore]

Well that would make two of us, as I really don't know what it means, but I think that The_Spec is referring to the "snotdots", "green peas" or whatever you like to call antipoints?

I've called them "APs" a lot, but you probably remember years ago I was begging for a Blue one lol. Not so much a bunch of Blue Dots under my name, but just a single Blue Dot under my name. I was the top AP Earner for a REALLY long time and, once I became a moderator too, I asked if I could have that. The Jupiter Staff WERE OK with the idea, and were thinking it over, but you know how it is; The Wheels of any Corporation, move slow lol.

Well, "totally correct" is about all I can say? We don't have arguments as such, but we might have a "heated discussion"

I'll agree with that I think the difference stems from the mutual respect you and I have had for such a long time. I think you know some of what I mean too; That stuff I showed you in the Mod area from my inbox about you, and my reply to it, heh.

But yea, I know you and I personally get along great, and considering we don't always agree, that's a pretty rare quality, because most people who don't agree all the time, DO tend to let it go too far.

At the same time you and I might be in a heated debate over something, you'll also take the time to download a new Distro at my behest, and generally like it.

*Unix Elitist".............. not really............it works, and does the job?

Unix Elitist was something I usually speak very openly about. I think I did tell you once about back in College, I had this Professor, and at it was a little weird, as he started out as a Student, even though he was in his 60s, but in Reality, he was just taking classes to freshen up his already AMAZING skills.

This guy, who's name is Bill, if that matters at all, was a Systems Coder, for 25 Years! He went from Writing Code for Processors, using a BSD Workstation costing a LOAD of money, to deciding he didn't want to do that anymore, and went back to school, and by chance, ended up in a lot of my classes with me, since I took mostly advanced courses in Computer Science, and within one Semester, we went from barely knowing each other, to becoming friends, who would, as you Brits would say; "Take the Piss out of each other" lol.

We didn't ever get too serious about that, but we DID bust each other wide open whenever we would get something wrong. Like for example; One day it was Mid Terms, and we both sat next to each other, and our Professor told us, that the next day, we were going to go over the tests, as a review.

So basically, we took the Mid Term, and we always had a sort of friendly Competition style of Attitude towards one another; He told ME that I was probably the only person in there who wasn't a total moron in terms of what we were doing (During a Linux + Class, someone actually tried finding a Start Menu lol) and so we both respected each other, and, due to my Love of History in General, he told me about back in the day when he would be working at one of his Unix Workstations, writing Code for Processors, and the stuff they used to do, and since I LOVE that, I listened and asked questions a lot.

I also introduced him to not only Linux, but the Freely Available BSDs around. He actually thought I was messing with him when I said that the 4.4 BSD Lite Code released from Berkeley, was not only still around, but was the basis for the Free ones as well. I told him about FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD, and of Linux, and he knew a little about Linux from hearing about it, but he thought at first that it was a toy.

When I showed him the FreeBSD web site on my Laptop, his jaw literally hit the floor, because he had NEVER seen a BSD that was totally free to download. He was used to spending over 10,000 Dollars on a Workstation that had a BSD OS on it.

So anyway, after the Mid Term, we come in the next day, and we get our tests back, and the Professor is getting ready for the review, where we're going to go over every question, and answer.

I saw he got ONE question wrong, and I busted his balls pretty hard, in a joking way, like "Wow, you... You got something WRONG?" And if I got one wrong he'd do the same. Normally I'd get one wrong because I'd be in there half asleep, and forget to answer one lol.

Anyway, when it became time for Finals Week, we both had an A in the class already, and even if we'd skipped the Final, we'd have still gotten an A because of all the Extra Credit we had already, AND we got voted by the class as the two people who Deserved bonus Extra Credit because we helped so much.

So we worked out a deal with the Professor, that once we were done with our Finals, we would go into the Computer Lab connected to that room, shut the door, and I would install Linux on a HD for him, so he could take it home and try it out.

From knowing his personal back ground, I chose Slackware. I told him about the " made to be easy" stuff, but he wanted no part in that. So I installed Slackware, and when it booted up he was shocked to see what looked like Unix, and all for free.

He might of used a completly Bullshit excuse to remove me, but i'm not going no place.

Good. I told you bthe last time you pulled a disappearing act that I'd kick the Kangaroo out of you if you left again =)

I'm just going to continue doing my thing, as i'm not leaving AO anytime soon.

Good again! This place is NOT the same with out you.

Kind of stupid really i'm the 1 whom got kicked to the curb, when i wasn't the 1 whom Personally Attacked Nihil in the mod area.

(Remember folks, personally attacking a Staff member is grounds for Instant Removal.)

I might finish up my post right here.

Well, you know I can't really discuss that in an open area such as this, but just know, I AM pulling for you =)

[nihil]

I am not too sure of the implications yet but it seems that on the Core-i processors the installation will default to a GTP partitioning.

You may have to convert this to restore your old OS if it uses the MBR partition system.

The symptoms are that the boot will produce a blinking cursor on a black screen for Windows7 and you will not be able to re-partition/format with Windows Vista.

You will need to convert the partition system prior to re-installation of your old OS or wipe the drive entirely............ errrrr........... you did remember to mirror/ghost your image didn't you?

[gore]

Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder if Microsoft is going to basically leave that in as a surprise in the final product (Which is probably sitting on a shelf already in their warehouses lol) but yea, that's a pretty damn nasty surprise to get.

I haven't used Windows 8, as I'm pretty content with Windows 7 in terms of Microsoft based OSs, but have you reported it as something they might actually try and fix? I mean most people don't really know what a MBR is, let alone another style of making an OS start up and go, or how Partitions are created, and this, this is quite the ass kicking if you don't know to expect it heh.

I'm probably going to think they won't fix this, unless someone bitches about it enough, or enough people complain, in which case they might release a Service Pack, or some type of Fix for it, or, better yet; Fix it and call it Windows 9 lol

Did you detail a log of what happened exactly? I mean obviously if this is what is going on, there are going to be some REALLY pissed of users heh.

[nihil]

Actually, I don't think that it is a Microsoft issue; it looks more like Intel and the MoBo/BIOS manufacturers doing to me.

It came about because I lent a SATA II HDD to a friend, who was desperate for a stop-gap until his replacement drive arrived.

I had just used it to test the hardware build of a Core i7 2600K. It has a Gigabyte MoBo and I used Windows8 64bit Release Preview as the OS. No problems, nor when I replaced the drive with SATA III SSD and HDD drives.

Come to think of it, I do seem to recall some sort of message about formatting when I installed the SATA II drive, as it had come from an AMD machine and had either the developer or consumer preview on it.

When he tried to load Windows7 it wouldn't load the installer programs and he just got a blinking cursor on the top left of a black screen. It was the same story when I tried Windows8 (32 & 64) Consumer and Release Previews and a 64bit Windows7 Ultimate.

I then tried Windows Vista 32bit Home Premium and it loaded the installer but said it couldn't load onto that HDD/partition. I messed about with deleting and recreating the partitions and with formatting but I got the same message.

I know that GTP has been around since the early '90s, and I believe that it was pretty much an Intel initiative back then?

The new Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge Intel processors ship with Intel HD integrated graphics, and the MoBos have Intel Chipsets to support this. My guess that there is something in the BIOS that lets the installation happen normally?

When you try it on older technology, the GTP HDD partitioning isn't recognised.

IIRC Microsoft introduced a disk wipe for clean installations with Vista?

I guess they need to sharpen their act up, and at least warn you like Vista does; although the ideal would be to let you wipe the old partitions and formatting, and install clean.

I suspect it has something to do with the hidden partitions that Windows 7 & 8 create, but I don't see why you don't even get a message, given that the installation disks are bootable media, and Vista manages to do it? I did notice, however, that although I could delete the partitions I couldn't get rid of the actual partitioning, so that 300MB partition remained, even though it was available space.

Fortunately, I don't suppose many people would remove an HDD from a Core-i to put into an older AMD machine.

The ultimate solution is just to nuke the damn thing and start over

[gore]

Actually, I don't think that it is a Microsoft issue; it looks more like Intel and the MoBo/BIOS manufacturers doing to me.

Hmm, I didn't even think of that. I think it stems from rarely ever updating the BIOS. I'm still unsure if this is TOTALLY the fault of the BIOS, since FreeBSD has been using their own "Slices" and so on, for making up a Partition Table, and so when I screw with this stuff, which these days is pretty rare Honestly, I generally don't have any issues. Then again, I'm not exactly doing a lot with it either, so that's probably why.

Maybe Microsoft AND the Companies making this stuff should actually get together to solve this though. I know Microsoft has worked with a lot of Companies in the past, so, I could see them doing so. After all; An issue like this, COULD be a big one.

It came about because I lent a SATA II HDD to a friend, who was desperate for a stop-gap until his replacement drive arrived.

I had just used it to test the hardware build of a Core i7 2600K. It has a Gigabyte MoBo and I used Windows8 64bit Release Preview as the OS. No problems, nor when I replaced the drive with SATA III SSD and HDD drives.

Heh, you've been doing this a LOT longer than I have, and so I know you remember more than I do, but remember back when you bought a Computer, and it was like "WOW! A 40 GB HD! How will I EVER use that much space!?!?!?!?" LOL.

Today you can't even buy drives that old unless you buy from a place that actually keeps them in stock. I STILL remember watching TechTV, back before they ruined the ****ing station by renaming it G4 and making it ALL about games, and nothing else.

I remember watching one day, and they had put a Computer together, and, with multiple HDs, gotten the thing to a TB. Back then, it was amazing, and today, it's less than standard on a lot of Machines lol.

Come to think of it, I do seem to recall some sort of message about formatting when I installed the SATA II drive, as it had come from an AMD machine and had either the developer or consumer preview on it.

When he tried to load Windows7 it wouldn't load the installer programs and he just got a blinking cursor on the top left of a black screen. It was the same story when I tried Windows8 (32 & 64) Consumer and Release Previews and a 64bit Windows7 Ultimate.

Heh, I still have that Windows 8 Preview you posted a while back. I haven't used it as of yet, as the only machine I really have that could actually use it, I use as my Primary Workstation, so I leave it as follows:

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Edition, which I actually have loaded right now, (I'm re-watching Seasons 1, 2, and 3 of True Blood, since the new Season Premiered like 2 weeks ago) And I dual boot this machine, with Open SUSE 12.1, which I REALLY like. If you have some time for another OS to mess with Nihil, I TRULY recommend that you download it, and try it out!

They have moved from the "init" way of doing things, into something totally different, and, in return, booting up, even on really old Hardware, is incredibly fast!

I know you were saying in another thread you were going to be moving from Windows XP since the EOL of it, is coming up now, and you were going to be using BSD, but if you have another machine that you could run this on, I HIGHLY recommend at least checking it out!

Now, you've known me for a Decade, and every time I've recommended something to you, you've usually used it and liked it for the most part, and I HIGHLY recommend OpenSUSE 12.1!

I then tried Windows Vista 32bit Home Premium and it loaded the installer but said it couldn't load onto that HDD/partition. I messed about with deleting and recreating the partitions and with formatting but I got the same message.

Heh, I remember back in the day; If I installed an OS, and got just a blinking cursor, and you were talking about, I'd almost wet myself, thinking "Oh ****... There goes everything I HAD on there" if I didn't have good back ups, which is one of the reasons I ended up setting up an FTP Server; I mean, My Wife and I, we have SO many Computers here, that burning Back Up CDs or DVDs, just is NOT a good option, because we would have no way of really Syncing all of the Data we need to back up, and so for a while, I used my 80 GB USB External HD, and it did OK, but it isn't exactly a lot of space today.

We then bought a 250 GB Passport USB External HD, and it's a LOT nicer because of all the backup Features if you're using Windows, but in general, I like it.

But again, you have to look through some files that have multiple copies, and see which one, or which ONES, you want to keep.

Eventually, I decided I would take my Beloved HP Pavilion, the first Computer I'd ever bought, and install an extra HD inside it, and, with a little Wire Wiggling, made THAT one, the Root Partition, and Master Drive, and then, took my old 43 GB HD the Computer came with, and I made it secondary, and made it just one big ass Partition called "/storage" and installed Slackware 12.0 on it, and set up an FTPd on it, and made it so that you had to use a User Account that was valid to log in, and my First Router, which is hooked up directly to the Net, was there in place, and then I set up another Router, which has a Firewall on it, also in place, and then a switch to add more machines and so on, and then, a "Hardware Security Suite" which has a Firewall, Packet Filter, and Anti Virus all in one, which is actually really neat, and, once all those were in place, I did a little bit of customization, and, I had a nice little FTP Server I can log into over SSH, and actually just have my Wife and I both remember to upload all our back ups to that one machine, and, from there, I can burn back up CDs, hook up my old and aging USB ZIP drive, and then, make back ups on that, and also, in general, hook up USB Drives I have, to make MORE copies of my Back Ups for the Super Important Stuff, like my First Album, all the Master Copies of the .wav files and Project Files for the Music OF my First Album, and the second, and so on.

I know that GTP has been around since the early '90s, and I believe that it was pretty much an Intel initiative back then?

I'm really not sure exactly, but I think you are correct.

The new Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge Intel processors ship with Intel HD integrated graphics, and the MoBos have Intel Chipsets to support this. My guess that there is something in the BIOS that lets the installation happen normally?

Hmm, if you get that sorted, I'd like to hear back for sure.

When you try it on older technology, the GTP HDD partitioning isn't recognised.

Personally, this doesn't even surprise me heh.

IIRC Microsoft introduced a disk wipe for clean installations with Vista?

My only real Experience with Vista, was back when my Wife had it on one of Her Machines. I have VERY little Experience with it though.

I guess they need to sharpen their act up, and at least warn you like Vista does; although the ideal would be to let you wipe the old partitions and formatting, and install clean.

Agree!

I suspect it has something to do with the hidden partitions that Windows 7 & 8 create, but I don't see why you don't even get a message, given that the installation disks are bootable media, and Vista manages to do it? I did notice, however, that although I could delete the partitions I couldn't get rid of the actual partitioning, so that 300MB partition remained, even though it was available space.

That's just weird heh.

Fortunately, I don't suppose many people would remove an HDD from a Core-i to put into an older AMD machine.

LOL yea, but then again, why not tinker?

The ultimate solution is just to nuke the damn thing and start over

AGREE! And besides; I used to get pissed sometimes, because I DO have a temper, and if I would get mad at my Computer, I'd sometimes Nuke a File System or two, just because it made me feel better lol.

[nihil]

Hmmmm,

A bit more research and it seems that Windows8 will not be multiboot friendly so don't install the beta on a production system I am not sure how it is with VMs.

The certified machines that I guess will ship towards the end of the year will:

1. Secure boot using UEFI
2. Use GPT partitioning
3. Use AHCI SATA access

Apart from my 32bit test machine that no longer works with Win8 because the processor doesn't support it, I have machines that certainly boot from BIOS and use MBR partitioning. They are currently running the release preview OK.

Have Microsoft got some more nasty surprises in store?

I believe that RedHat/Fedora are working on a commercial solution to the multiboot issue, but that is going to cost ($99 I think).

I know that I can convert MBR to GPT but what about UEFI?........will I need a firmware update? or will the final release still support MBR?