U.S. to Weigh Computer Chip Implant

[Remote_Access_]

This is more controversal than the thought of cloning a human. I'm all for technological advancement but this is going too far. The original article can be viewed here.. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20020227/ap_on_hi_te/human_computer_chip_3)
Do you not see where there needs to me certain limitations on technology? Do you see where technology can be bad now? How do you like the thought of the government being able to watch your every move and posess the capability to find you with pin point accuracy?..

Here's the article:

U.S. to Weigh Computer Chip Implant
Tue Feb 26, 7:55 PM ET
By CHRISTOPHER NEWTON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - A Florida technology company is poised to ask the government for permission to market a first-ever computer ID chip that could be embedded beneath a person's skin.

For airports, nuclear power plants and other high security facilities, the immediate benefits could be a closer-to-foolproof security system. But privacy advocates warn the chip could lead to encroachments on civil liberties.

The implant technology is another case of science fiction evolving into fact. Those who have long advanced the idea of implant chips say it could someday mean no more easy-to-counterfeit ID cards nor dozing security guards.

Just a computer chip — about the size of a grain of rice — that would be difficult to remove and tough to mimic.

-- 'Just' a computer chip my ass..

Other uses of the technology on the horizon, from an added device that would allow satellite tracking of an individual's every movement to the storage of sensitive data like medical records, are already attracting interest across the globe for tasks like foiling kidnappings or assisting paramedics.

Applied Digital Solutions' new "VeriChip" is another sign that Sept. 11 has catapulted the science of security into a realm with uncharted possibilities — and also new fears for privacy.

"The problem is that you always have to think about what the device will be used for tomorrow," said Lee Tien, a senior attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a privacy advocacy group.

"It's what we call function creep. At first a device is used for applications we all agree are good but then it slowly is used for more than it was intended," he said.

Applied Digital, based in Palm Beach, Fla., says it will soon begin the process of getting Food and Drug Administration approval for the device, and intends to limit its marketing to companies that ensure its human use is voluntary.

"The line in the sand that we draw is that the use of the VeriChip would always be voluntarily," said Keith Bolton, chief technology officer and a vice president at Applied Digital. "We would never provide it to a company that intended to coerce people to use it."

More than a decade ago, Applied bought a competing firm, Destron Fearing, which had been making chips implanted in animals for several years. Those chips were mainly bought by animal owners wanting to provide another way for pound workers to identify a lost pet.

Chips for humans aren't that much different.

But the company was hesitant to market them for people because of ethical questions. The devastation of Sept. 11 solidified the company's resolve to market the human chip and brought about a new sensibility about the possible interest.

"It's a sad time ... when people have to wonder whether it's safe in their own country," Bolton said.

The makers of the chip also foresee it being used to help emergency workers diagnose a lost Alzheimer's patient or access an unconscious patient's medical history.

Getting the implant would go something like this:

A person or company buys the chip from Applied Digital for about $200 and the company encodes it with the desired information. The person seeking the implant takes the tiny device — about the size of a grain of rice, to their doctor, who can insert it with a large needle device.

The doctor monitors the device for several weeks to make sure it doesn't move and that no infection develops.

The device has no power supply, rather it contains a millimeter-long magnetic coil that is activated when a scanning device is run across the skin above it. A tiny transmitter on the chip sends out the data.

Without a scanner, the chip cannot be read. Applied Digital plans to give away chip readers to hospitals and ambulance companies, in the hopes they'll become standard equipment.

The chip has drawn attention from several religious groups.

Theologian and author Terry Cook said he worries the identification chip could be the "mark of the beast," an identifying mark that all people will be forced to wear just before the end times, according to the Bible.

Applied Digital has consulted theologians and appeared on the religious television program the "700 Club" to assure viewers the chip didn't fit the biblical description of the mark because it is under the skin and hidden from view.

Even with the privacy and religious concerns, some are already eager to use the product.

Jeff Jacobs in Coral Springs, Florida has contacted the company in hopes of becoming the first person to purchase the chip.

Jacobs suffers from a number of serious allergies and wants to make sure medical personnel can diagnose him.

"They would know who to contact, they would know what medications I'm on, and it's quite a few," he said. "They would know what I'm allergic to, what kind of operations I've had and where there might be problems."

Applied Digital says technology to let the chip to be used for tracking is already well under development.

Eight Latin American companies have contacted Applied Digital and have openly encouraged the company to pursue the internal tracking devices. In some countries, kidnapping has become an epidemic that limits tourism and business.

Tell me this form of technology is a good thing and you'll never hear the end of it from me.
I've also attached a picture of this new chip. Take a look at it..

Remote_Access_

[{P²P}Apocalypse]

Holy zonkers Batman.......
What year is this anyway..1984? This is not only orwellean, but it's getting downright scary what this government is wanting to do and/or propose. If stuff like this is out in the open. I would hate to see what they have going on behind closed doors. Our civil rights and privacy are going out the window or down the ole' poop shute.........

[Remote_Access_]

Privacy no longer exists. Take a look at this article. (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/chipimplant020225.html)

Here's a few paragraphs from the story:

"Any technology of this kind is easily abusive of personal privacy," says Lee Tien, senior staff attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "If a kid is track-able, do you want other people to be able to track your kid? It's a double-edged sword."


...Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. in Palm Beach, Fla., is one of the latest to try and push the experiments beyond the realm of academic research and into the hands — and bodies — of ordinary humans. The company says it has recently applied to the Food and Drug Administration for permission to begin testing its VeriChip device in humans. About the size of a grain of rice, the microchip can be encoded with bits of information and implanted in humans under a layer of skin. When scanned by a nearby handheld reader, the embedded chip yields the data — say an ID number that links to a computer database file containing more detailed information.

Such qualms over privacy, whether real or overblown, are likely to keep any mass "chipping" from happening in the near future. And that may be the ultimate problem for the technology overall.

- How long do you think it will be before this disasterous event occurs? How long will our privacy remain? How long? Not long.

Remote_Access_

[Mankan]

I hear you guys but maybe this could backfire and actually turn out to be a good thing?

If I, as a private person, can get one of those chips I can use it to authenticate myself on my own systems. There would for example never be any need for PGP signing or whatever because my computer could be 100% sure I'm the person I say I am.

As long as these chips cant be scanned from more than three feet away and laws against putting up scanners everywhere I might be okay with it.

I'm just saying there's two sides of the coin here and I'm not so sure both sides are really nasty.

Mankan

[micael]

This is truly interesting reading.
The "big brother" society is closer then ever and hopefully not only evil will come out of this.

Thanks for the good reading RA !

[Tim_axe]

I'm just curious... How will these little computer things substain themselves? I don't really know if you can fit a battery into something that small..., and would it have enough power to even do that sort of stuff? I doubt that it could be sending a signal strong enough to be recieved at any distance..., but I could be wrong... I do know that I have to be right next to my TV with my palm pilot and the OmniRemote thing to turn it on...

I don't really like how this could turn out... It seems that these changes come around as a result of all the events that are happening everywhere...

Still, an interesting topic, though scarry...

-Tim_axe

[Krakpype]

Yeah, I agree with Tim_Axe. This is just a creation of peoples paranioa. I don't believe that this will ever happen though. It's just not constitutional, ethical, or technologically possible. Power is a main issue.

[gold eagle]

Maybe I can help with the how part. These little bodybot type chips will be made to act in what officially is described as "bio-commensalism". To sum up a very long dissertation on the matter - they are being designed to function by a parasitic power process. This means in plain English that they will live off your bodies energy. Their voltages are sub micron voltages and will be non intrusive. Can you tell with whom I have worked? Still, beware, the tiny body engines are here.

[{P²P}Apocalypse]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=220222#post463403) by gold eagle
Still, beware, the tiny body engines are here.
So true. They had a SciTech segment on the Discovery channel a while back about tiny gears and machines that look like a speck of dust to the human eye. They disscussed surgery that could be done as well as all kinds of neat tricks. Even preventing strokes by having the tiny machines go through the arteries and clear them up. It also talked about the same chips here but as they applied them to pets and such. Just a little FYI.

[BrainStop]

Not only is a company working on these chips, but people are already lining up to be the first to get the implant:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/chipimplant020225.html

The Jacobs family, which get mentionned in the article, was the first to volunteer and has made headlines in many papers/news sites.

Big Brother is one thing ... but volunteering to be monitored?

It's like that car rental company that started billing people for speeding by using GPS receivers in their cars (that was found illegal btw: http://europe.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/02/20/rental.car.tracking.ap/)

Cheers,

BrainStop

[PhirePhreak]

Greetz.
I'm totally against this computer chip in the body crap... I think we're taking "A chip off the old block" a bit too literally... Honestly, this just scares the crap out of me. A few months ago, some guy (sojourn) came into the IRC (and I haven't seen him since...). He directed me to something similiar to this. If you've ever read the Left Behind series by LeHaye/Jenkins, this will seem awfully similar to the Mark of the Beast toward the end of the series... scares the poopie outa me.

Well, I'm going to go hide under my bed now. Maybe they can't find me...

--PhirePhreak *shaking*

[gold eagle]

PhirePhreak - was that series put to movie format, thought I'd seen something like that? Is that about the end of the world and all that?

btw - they have monitor under your bed. :-)

[oblio]

quick to blame the government are we? i don't recall anything in the article saying that the US government is interested in using this technology. It doesn't even suggest that the FDA is seeking to approve this. This is a case of a corporation with an agenda. Too bad the republicans are in power though, we know how they like their money...

[VanEck]

what is this? hackers fearing new technology? anyone who fears government monitoring should know by now that if they want to know something, anything, they can. they do not need chips in you. granted, it will make it easier, but we of all people should not fear this. we should learn how to use it for our own benefit. how to "hack" it.
there is obviously no stopping it. once the seed of a new technology has been planted, it will grow. you can not stop technology. one thing that does scare me though is what will happen when script kiddies learn how to exploit these things.

:borg:

[souleman]

I am going to have to look for the link to the article I read yesterday. It was saying that the government in South Carolina was giving away childrens DNA without the parents concent. Some of it was going to a genetics lab, for testing. The rest was going to another government agency, so that they could start a DNA database.

[KublaiKhan]

It's not that we fear new technology, but the uses that it could be put to. Should it be required to get one, I, for one, am going to make damn well sure that there's a method of altering it before I let it anywhere near me--i.e, blanking it entirely. I don't think we really have to worry about s'kiddie exploits on these, though, until they team up with pickpockets--no other way to get close enough for an exploit.

[cold_connection]

Kinda sad to bring that back but, during WW2, prisoners were 'marked', tagged. Who wants to be tagged? Are they thinking of getting GPS into the chip so they'll know when we mitch school? No way. Has anyone ever read novels such as the Mona Lisa Overdrive by Wilson and Ride to Pegasus (by I don't remember who)? The SIN chip was a total disaster. This is the begining to population growth control and to 'eliminate' the 'scum' from the 'high' society.
We should really have a say in all this. What can we do?

[BrainStop]

Here's a link to one version of that article on children's DNA in South Carolina:

http://www.goupstate.com/docs/Opinion/Editorials/5878.asp

Cheers,

BrainStop

[SnowQueen]

just a quick comment from a newbie (first post, yay!)

as for the power the device uses, you wont need a battery or to drain bioelectrical energy from the body (ever play Dues Ex?) it will use magnatism. it much the same way i am powering my radio.

The wind blows, that turns the blades on my little windmill, that turns a shaft, which connects to a magnet that moves through a coil generating electricity. a simple generator.

the way these chips work is similar, the scanner will be a magnet and a reciever, the magnet is passed over the skin and makes the magnet inside teh chip pass thru a coil, generating just enough electricity to power the minute transmitter. the data sent out by the transmitter will be then picked up by the reciver and displays it on a small screen.

for me this brings to mind fictional storys come true, a quote from a book i read in school that i shall never foget is "...The metal machines of most unreal terror tear accross the country along the scoreched black paths they lay before them, fueled by the blackened blood of earth itself they bring havoc and choas wherever they may travel..." remind you of cars at all? maybe just a bit? yes..?

and of course there is also the one about people who are brainwashed by large Bieg boxes they are forced into buying to better their lives. and the large metal birds that carry people to heaven. ack, i could go on forever as i scan my old english books form school.

we must face it, we are going the way we are destined. pretty soon it will be normal for everything to be automated, you will go from having robots that clean your house, to robots that do your job, weather you are replaced by a computer, a vending machine, or a repair robot, one day the machines will take over...

ever hear the phraze..

"Its for your own good"

~Laura~

[SarinMage]

letting the gov't put something inside me that in a place that im not suposed to know about, and use it to track me, (cause thats basically what it is regardless of what people say);

no-good

[s0nIc]

hmmm.. i think that picture looks like the "new and improved all-around vaccination implant" my doctor just implanted on the back of my neck few months ago... wow... what a kuwinky dink... :shocked:

[Dr Toker]

nanomachines....

[Mankan]

But really, how much monitoring could *they* possibly be doing with an itsy-bitsy chip like that. I doubt youd even pick it up unless pressing the scanner against the thing but this is just my ignorance speaking.

Cheers,

[Noia]

I read some where that some ppl where making a Chip that could bond to DNA and analyze it, exselent security, and also very handy for Healt checks and stuff like that......

I'll post it if I find it....
:D :D :D

- Noia

[KorpDeath]

LoJack for the body. Hmmmm. Interesting. I could definitely see the benefits of putting these things in kids. But then that would probably give their ID10T parents a false sense of security and they would completely stop watching their kids....if they watch them at all now. Anyway, I vote to NOT have these. bad idea. stupid companies.

[the_JinX]

I remember an idea about using barcodes and this chip idea is also a very old one that never realy got thrue..

I think this is one of the worst things that can ever happen to privacy and anonimity..
It could make internet identification a lot easier... But I'd never chance it..

They'll have to put that chip my dead corpse...

[Remote_Access_]

I hear you guys but maybe this could backfire and actually turn out to be a good thing?
- Would you mind explaning to me how? I fail to realize the 'good' side of this technology.

I don't really know if you can fit a battery into something that small
- Nanotechnology. Technology that we know very little about other than it's microscopic.

This is just a creation of peoples paranioa.
- Ok, I'm a bit parinoind.. but it's still a very real thread and it's coming. It's not going to be long before it happens. I hate to bring up religion into this thread, but have you ever heard of the mark of the beast? The bible says in the final times that people will have to be 'marked' to have the ability to live in ordinary day-to-day life. What do you think this chip is?

It doesn't even suggest that the FDA is seeking to approve this.
- If you read the friggin' article you'll see that you're wrong. That's all they're waiting for.. the approval from the FDA.

Scared to death,
Remote_Access_

[SarinMage]

processing everyone through databases everday, keeping tabs on where they are, and in turn what there doing, doesent matter if its for "health reasons", its STILL a way of monitering us.

[Jimbo2112]

Ok, just a short tutorial:

Contrary to some of the posts to this thread, there are no batteries, magnets, moving parts, or black magic involved.

If you have traveled on toll roads recently, you may have noticed something called EZ-Tag, or FastPass. This is a tag the size of a PCMCIA card that goes inside of your car on the windshield. As you pass through the toll gate, the reader sends out an RF pulse to the tag that excites the internal circuitry into emitting a reply pulse. This is picked up by the reader, which is usually mounted above the lane, or to one side. The reader decodes the reply, and matches it against a central database. The response is to either green light you through, or yellow to let you know there is a problem with your account.

The range for this size of device is only 75 to 100 feet, so with an antenna only a few MM long, the implant could only be interrogated from 5 to 10 feet away. So, no global tracking is possible, you almost would have to be right next to the reader device to be scanned.

I think the old adage still holds true: If you build it, they will abuse it. The Govt. knows far too much already about all of us.

:verypisse

[gold eagle]

Jimbo2112 - these tags are some of the products the company I am with currently builds. The idea is for mini readers installed in all public buildings, access ways, automobiles etc. Not wanting to sound Orwellian but the plans for this are already being honed. We will have this ready to go sooner than you think.

[ing]

that is scary i agreed with phirepreak and everyone how thinks that this against humans rights its like butting a bomb inside somebody just imagine the damage if a nerd hacks that that is connected to your body you don't now what repercussions that will bring
how ever thats put that on freely its a nerd or a stupid dumb sheep who does whatever everybody tells him like 99% of the rest of this damn ****ing world

[Remote_Access_]

Contrary to some of the posts to this thread, there are no batteries, magnets, moving parts, or black magic involved.
- You don't know that for sure. The details of the microchips are really small. Did you see the picture? I have a close up of the chip that you can download. It'll give you a better idea of what the chip looks like. With technology exposed to the public, it makes you wonder what they have stored behind closed doors. Makes you wonder how small they can really make the chip. The current one is slightly larger than a grain of rice.

The Govt. knows far too much already about all of us.
-How true that is..

The range for this size of device is only 75 to 100 feet, so with an antenna only a few MM long, the implant could only be interrogated from 5 to 10 feet away. So, no global tracking is possible, you almost would have to be right next to the reader device to be scanned.
- Well.. that may be the current range but just give it a few months and it'll go from 100 feet to 1000 to 100,000 to 100,000,000.. it won't be long. Just give it time. Global tracking isn't possible, but it will be..

Remote_Access_

[gold eagle]

I'm not sure if some of you guys are missing how this works. The systems will not have live tracking per se. The microde will receive an "excite" signal when you pass one of the areas I mentioned, then, at preset times it will "radiate" as you near another sentry. You might not go near one for hours or days but when you do - you "bodybot" will report your loc and other stats. Hope this helps. Bottom line is the plan is for them to be passive reporting not active.

[Remote_Access_]

I know how it works. I know what it is and what it dose.
It tracks your every movement. It's used to keep tabs on EVERYONE.
They're trying to make it a form of GLOBAL identification. They want to know where everyone is and what they are doing at all times. The system WILL have live tracking. The bottom line is that they will have massive 'chipping' and privacy will no longer exist. If we start doing research now and continue to discuss this microchip then perhaps we'll find some way to identify the bug, remove it, and destroy it..

Remote_Access_

[gold eagle]

RA - my explanatory post was not aimed at you.

I was merely responding to a few posts back about the powering structure and how the actual reporting logic will work. I'm not justifying this technology, rather pointing out to some who may wish info on how it will work.

And, yes, the system of course IS active and liekly global in nature. I agree that it is not a good thing.

[KorpDeath]

Reminds me of 12 monkeys *pulling his teeth out to prevent anyone from tracking him*....

Just go get yourself a couple of lead patches to put over the device. As you can tell I'm not a Chicken Little and I don't think this will be as Orwellian as some of you are making it out to be. Still, I won't sign up for it.

[gold eagle]

The system that is envisioned already exists to some degree in any case. If ppl have worked for the military, the fed or state (provincial?) govts you already know this. So much is and is being tied together that the implantation discussion may become a moot point.
My 3 cents.

[Remote_Access_]

Of course it already exists. Social security numbers. Driver's license. Apparently these are not going to be good enough for future identification by the U.S. and the rest of the world. The UN wants the world to adopt this new method of identification. There's a politician in Brazil that's actualy wants to be implanted with that friggin' bug. It reminds me of that bug they implant Neo with in The Matrix. I know most of you've seen it. If you haven't you're missing a good movie.. any way, dose anyone think that the same or similar removal process would be possible? And if so, how?

Remote_Access_

[thesecretfire]

Removing it would be difficult, due to size. However, you could put a big electromagnet near it, induce a pretty big current into the circutry (not too big tho :) ) and fry the thing.

[lord_darkside_x]

alright guys... another contrioversial topic....

first, i am disappointed that some are willing to accept this... how sad.

second, from what i here, yes they want to make the chip, but they have yet to successfully put it in a human.... one scientist tried it once on himself and his body rejected it. he almost died actually... but i hadn't heard about it since then and that was like 1 year ago. they may have perfected it, just not made it available to the public. we'll see what happens... but i plan on refusing the chip. they can kill me first.

[Remote_Access_]

I wonder what it would take to fry such a small device.. I'd rather have the capability to disable the device instead of removing it. Actually, if I had the choice I'd want both. Hehe.

First: lord_darkside_x , you wouldn't mind having a chip inside of you giving the government access to your EVERY movement & action? If you accept this technology so openly, you can join that wierd family and the brazilian politican and volunteer to have your self a brand new 'ID' chip. Sounds gread dosen't it?

Second: From what I've read, all they're waiting on is approval from the FDA. Then they're going to start suggesting this 'great' idea to other countries and make an attempt at mass 'chiping' for 'identification' purposes..

Remote_Access_

[s0nIc]

I read some where that some ppl where making a Chip that could bond to DNA and analyze it, exselent security, and also very handy for Healt checks and stuff like that......

Hmm i dont know if it could bond DNA but i did read about a chip which will be implanted on a person and if ran through a scanner, it will tell the scanner whats wrong with your system, if you are sick or what so ever.. Juts like star trek.. :) hehe

[Tedob1]

Technology, for technologies sake is ludicrous.

------------------------
what is this? hackers fearing new technology?
------------------------

There’s a difference, between fearing something and not wanting it.

i don't want this! i think this is something we must stop while we still can.

--------------------------
there is obviously no stopping it. once the seed of a new technology has been planted, it will grow. you can not stop technology.
--------------------------

what about nuclear power plants?

You can stop anything you don't want, as long as enough people agree with you. all we gotta do is spread the word. most people, i think, would want to nip this in the bud.

---------------------------
This is just a creation of peoples paranioa.
---------------------------

your kidding, right?

[halomouse]

I kind of like the 'use it to log-in to my comp' idea someone posted. If I could just get one that only I can scan, use it as a 'proximity id' device. Push one button, and up come the p-words I need and such.

[lord_darkside_x]

First: lord_darkside_x , you wouldn't mind having a chip inside of you giving the government access to your EVERY movement & action? If you accept this technology so openly, you can join that wierd family and the brazilian politican and volunteer to have your self a brand new 'ID' chip. Sounds gread dosen't it?

when did i say i accepted it???? i said: i am disappointed that some are willing to accept this... how sad and but i plan on refusing the chip . they can kill me first.

i NEVER said i would like it come on Remote_Access_, don't you know me better then that, form all my other posts?

[PhirePhreak]

I'm gonna be honest. The more I read about this, the more I realize it's not a bad thing. It's a horrible thing. A horrendous thing. An EVIL thing. I found a link for the biochip that I read about earlier that scared the poo outa me (http://www.digitalangel.net -- not for the weak hearted).

I went through a phase a while ago when I was really interested in the end of the world, so I not only read, but studied, Revelations probably about ten times. The Mark of the Beast is real. I hope this isn't really it, but I honestly don't care; it's way too similiar to be an innocent coincidence. I will take a bullet before I let anyone put that stupid chip in me for whatever reason, however noble it may seem to them.

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

[Remote_Access_]

All appologies lord_darkside_x.. points for you for pointing that out.
I over looked it or something but any way, thanks for correcting me. ;)

Phirephreak.. your previous post sounds EXACALLY like my train of thought on the subject.
Well.. great minds do think alike. :D I also read the book of Revelation.. over and over and over... I don't think that this is a coincidence either. Call me parinoid but the end of the world is near and I'll be dead before I allow they to put that damn thing in my hand, huh uh. They ain't gonna get RA.. alive that is.

Remote_Access_

[lord_darkside_x]

I also read the book of Revelation..

based on this fact, then you should realize that the rapture will come before the mark of the beast. those who have achieved salvation will be taken from this earth before the antichrist comes to power (although they will see his rise)... the mark of the beast will follow the antichrist. so i guess it depends on where you stand, if christianity is your thing. have quite an extensive knowledge of the bible (as well as the bible or it's equivilent for many other religions) so if you have anymore question let me know... but as of right now, this sounds like the closest thing to the mark of the beast i have ever heard. but the only thing that is missing is the 666 and the fact that it is supposed to be visible (unless you interpret it visible to scanners, which i don't) but it sounds the closest and most reasonably true so far

[gold eagle]

I hope this isn't the case. RA - what else does it say about this mark?

[lord_darkside_x]

here is the chapter where talk of the mark begins.... but you should read 14 as well... it continues. actually you should read the whole thing to fully understand...

***NOTE: revelation is a book that has multiple interpretations because it is prophecy. some believe that the things in it (the dragon, the beast) are metaphors, although others take it literally. we will not know unless/until it happens.

Revelation 13

1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.
4 Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months.
6 He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. [1]
9 He who has an ear, let him hear.
10 If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.[2]
15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Revelation 14

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand,
10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Revelation 15

2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name. They held harps given them by God


[1]- referance that those who have achieved salvation will be gone before the mark of the beast is implemented.

[2]- some scholars believe that this first "beast" may be a country

hope this helped gold eagle

[gold eagle]

um. Thks for the info. So, this person is going to force everyone to do it then. Why would they let him get away with all this anyway?

[lord_darkside_x]

13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.


that is reason one... it is believed he/she will be a charmer. that people will be captivated by the beast. that people will think it is for their own good. people will believe in these person, thinking that he/she is good, because of the miracles.

[Conf1rm3d_K1ll]

How did such a good thread end up going all religous? The book of revelations? Please.....



Is this implant chip a step towards the "cyborg" generation or the ultimate in spyware. It appears to be both........time will tell.............................

[valhallen]

Hmmmmm if the chip can only be read by passing a scanner directly over the skin and is only used for storring my medical records then I say go for it - I'm hypoglycemic and it would be reasssuring to know that if anything should happen to me paramedics would know straight away what my medical history is......

v_Ln

[Tedob1]

And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation...

Can we spell globalization?

[PhirePhreak]

lord darkside:
you said that the rapture would happen first... many people don't believe that the rapture will actually happen... but hey, it's still not cool...

whether this chip is religious or simply spying... i don't like it

[lord_darkside_x]

many people don't believe that the rapture will actually happen...

well... i know people believe that. but i personally feel that if the bible is true, thenthe rapture will happen and it willl happen before the mark of the beast. there are many references to there being a time when the christians are taken away. this is said to happen before all the other stuff. so even if you choose not to call it rapture, there is definitely supposed to be something like that idea, acccording to revelation. i never understood why people believed otherwise, it says it right in there.

but on the topic.... i really don't think that this chip is a religious thing. i think it is terrible and i will never take it, but i don't have enough proof to think it is religious. besides that, there are some prophecies that would have to come true first, before the rise of the antichrist.

[ing]

well guys even if the chip is not religious it is still something scary and we need to do something about it i don't want to wake up a day when every body has that in their body we don't now how powerful that thing is and even if any day that happens i hope there will be people that will stand up the the world to better start things how they are the goverments are just trying to tighten their grip on the people and am not planning to look to the other side when it happens i hope you are with me if not i pity you.
and am gonna try to hack that............maybe that is the only good thing i can see about it.

Phirephreak and lord_darkside i recommenbd you to read your bible again because you guys have a few things mixed up but well it does'nt matter it is just my opinion.

[Noia]

I wouldn't want to have a chip, tracking me around, how ever, if some one makes a chip that can read and understand brain waves, then we have out first Nuro-interfece, and then you'd be able to write/draw/whatever in less that 1/100 time that it takes right now.....

But would we want that???, then the gov could know what we where thinking......

Mady it would just be better to keep technology and Biology seperat....

- Noia

[ing]

I agree with you noia

[D.J.]

well, i really don't agree with this chip. to be honest, since the beginning of civilization countries have been attacked by people who have about as much since as the bricks on my house. things like this will happen. there really is no need for all this nonsense. if they plant this chip in people, wouldn't it be easier for terrorists to do more harm if they are able to get a hold of this technology? you people, i'm sure, know that whoever makes this chip will have to store that data somewhere. technology has gone a long way, far enough to see that just about anything is possible when it comes to computers and stuff like that. it might be good, it might be bad; either way i'm willing to keep an open mind and just see what happens.

[preacherman481]

PhirePhreak, I agree with you. It does sound like the type of technology used in the "Left Behind" series story. While I love computers and I think technology has helped humankind tremendously, sadly it hasn't done a lot to improve the human heart. Evil people can take anything and use it for wrong purposes. With the advent of chips such as the one discussed and Global Positioning System satellite and tracking technology, the means now exist for controlling people in ways not before possible. I invite everyone to read the "Left Behind" book series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins (You can probably check it out at the public library), and also to read what the Bible says about the last days in the book of Revelation. A one world government seems closer every day!

[PhirePhreak]

Well, whether or not this is the creation of the Mark, at least we are all agreed that it is not a good thing. It's definitely a step in the direction of being Marked by the Beast and not even being aware of it... and worse: not being able to do anything about it. The Mark is supposed to be placed on the forehead or right hand, so we'll just have to wait and see where they recommend it to be implanted...

And ing: I've read the Bible more times than I can count, especially Revelations. But there is much symbolism in the Bible, as well as meanings that aren't terribly easy to grasp, so there will always be disagreements about the translation of it. That doesn't mean that anyone is wrong, just that they don't think the same.

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

[lord_darkside_x]

ing... i too have read the bible many a time. revelation is a book of interpretation though. i really even gave a personal belief, but quoted verses word for word. the only transltaions i gave were pretty straight foward. but you can have your opinion and i will have mine.

[3ntropy]

Personally,
This is a completely different issues then the human clones RA, and I do not feel like typing out another 3 pages of stuff. So, I will keep my response fairly short.

Anyway, I think that computer chip implantations into humans by the government, i.e. forced, and no choice is terrible. And I believe strongly that, that is completely against one's individual rites to privacy and personality. But if it were to be through corporation implantation, that would be a good thing. To be able to have a Gps chip in your head so you don't get lost and other enhancements and such to the human body, would be an extremely well deserved device. But it would be completely unethical to every degree to have government chips in humans. But I can see where they could be coming from. "You should not be doing anything illegal so why are you worried about us watching you?" But I would strongly disagree with that, and would rip mine out of my skull if it ever was forced upon me. :)

Just my little tidbit.

[lord_darkside_x]

i know why you say what you do 3nthropy, but here are my reasons to tend to disagree.

#1-how would you like your boss to know how much time you spend in the bathroom or how late you were coming back from lunch? when you are in a corporation these priveledges are sometimes either taken advantage of OR the boss thinks you are taking advantage of them. but they will tend to go unnoticed unless the boss specifically watched you. until now... with these new chips, your boss will know your every move.

#2-u say taht if it is corporations and not the gov't it will be a good thing. well how do you know that the gov't won't be using it to secretly monitor you? i have a feeling they will....

#3-we all hate spam and junk mail(in snail mail) right? well imagine that you have this chip and corporations are monitoring everything you purchase. now the influx of junk mail will be greater and more concentrated. (hundreds of mails stating, "you like this? well you'll love....") beyond that i have had heard an even scarier thing about this chip. see i am in the advertising industry and i heard that one thing these chips can do is recieve information from an electronic scanner. and well corporations (microsoft being one) want to start virtually spamming. putting it on street corners like billboards... only now the commercial will be in your brain, not on a screen or billboard. this is a very experimental idea, but if it is at all feasible, it could be pure hell. the other downside to if that part of the technology works is imagine everytime you come in to work, they have a scanner that projects the thought in your head, "i love working here, i should not get a raise" and you now once the commercials start, that will be sure to follow... ultimate brain washing.

***Note: i heard about "virtual spam" in a sit down meeting with an unnamed corporation that is a client of mine. they had talked to someone from microsoft who not only said microsoft wanted to impliment it eventually (assuming the chip was passed) but that Micro$oft was already in development of the scanners. scary huh?

[Alcatraz]

If you're right lord_darkside, I hope Earth get's hit by a meteor that knocks it out of orbit and directly into the sun. Virtual Spam? I couldn't deal with that. And that's not really fair advertising either. That's a company hijacking your brain so you'll feel compelled to by a product.

Just imagine how bad these chips can be. I'm almost certain that someone will figure out how to hack them... I don't know what would happen then, but it'll be bad.

I remember hearing something about companies wanting to put advertisements on satelites so we'd see them in the night sky. That seems like a good idea compared to this virtual chip stuff. There's no way in hell I'd want to be monitered by any sort of chip. That privelege WILL be abused, because we all know how corrupt the goverment and big corporations are.

[carrier]

The chip will also know if your child has fallen and needs immediate help. Once paramedics arrive, the chip will also be able to tell the rescue workers which drugs little Johnny or Janie is allergic to. At the hospital, the chip will tell doctors his or her complete medical history.
And of course, when you arrive to pick up your child, settling the hospital bill with your health insurance policy will be a simple matter of waving your own chip — the one embedded in your hand.

[PhirePhreak]

Why not just pay attention to your kid? And you can tell them... or they have the little medical bracelets if you need them. All without invading your privacy!

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

[Remote_Access_]

Carrier: Are you an employee at that agency in Florida? If you were watching your friggin' kid, you wouldn't have to worry about that. The doctors can find my child's medical records by using my son's SS number. Isn't that significant enough? Must my privacy be invaded to preform simple medical procedures?! What makes you think I'm gonna have one of those damn bugs inplanted under my skin? I don't mind taking 5 minutes of my time to fill out the paper work and avoid invasion of my privacy.

Remote_Access_

[PhirePhreak]

Very nice RA. I like your thinking ;)

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

[ing]

i agree with you RA

lordX &PhirePreak you guys are right its just my opinion i don't now how to express myself very well in english

[Louie]

So if we resist the Mark of the Beast, do we get our head's chopped off by the Gulliotine. I get to marry Chloe though, even though she trashed the SUV in Left Behind...

[Remote_Access_]

..I was wondering the same thing. What if we refuse to have that bug implanted is us and our children? Are they going to force it upon us? Are we going to be punished in some way? I think that in one of the articles, it stated that using the bug as your credit card can be to your advantage.. Well I don't have a credit card (I don't want one now) and it only takes 5 friggin' minutes to fill out the medical bills and insurance forums. As far as ID goes, WTF is wrong with using my SS number and my drivers license??

Remote_Access_

[lord_darkside_x]

right now it sounds vulontary. i think in the end (esp based on the bible). it won't be that they force you, it will be more like you have no alternative cause everyone else. this will be the only way to buy and sell. i think at the most extreme point they may kill you, but it would be just as easy to let you starve to death or let you get caught committing a crime. then they can get rid of you with out stirring up discord amongst the people.

here's something i read a while back and just found, but it basically administrates what i feel about all this new stuff coming up.

As the century nears its formidable end, our global experienceof universal proportions, predicted by many greats will arrive at our solar system, to our system of a down. Authoritarion oppression, family abuse, depression caused by conformity, and economic devastation will be nuetralized by technological terrorism in times of complete chaos. Control will never be gained for toleration will be extinct. A husband quarreling with his wife will not think twice or regret his spent bullet. Hungry children will not spare the grocer. Remorse in all forms will be removed from human thoughts and actions. Freedom will only be available through revolution or death. The system of a down is unavoidable as life on this planet becomes unnecessary. The hand has five fingers, capable and powerful, with the ability to destroy as well as create. We have the power to stop and reverse the tides of time by making our awareness of abuseknown to the powers of the industry and their uncouth political arms, only by raising this awareness and promoting personal peace within todays self-defeatist society, can we allow the planet a chance to avoid self destruction!
OPEN YOUR EYES, OPEN YOUR MOUTHS, CLOSE YOUR HANDS AND MAKE A FIST!

[PhenZen]

did i read that correctly?? Chips under a persons skin? I do NOT think this is right, before we know it they will have us plugging into a computer to download our thoughts for the day. Just think next thing we would be turning out to be able to have our ideas erased if the gov't didn't like them. I really dont think this will pass.

just my 2 cents

Andrew

[lord_darkside_x]

what is your reason for not thinking this will pass. our government does not voice the concern of the people or the majority anymore. it is what congress wants. 2nd, it will be proposed to americans in a much nicer light then that, explaining that "this is the best way" and this is a "wonderful thing" but the main reason this bill will prolly get passed. the chip will be voluntary. beyond this. the things you are talking about will be numerous years away, if ever. they may send some thoughts to us, but i doubt they will try to control them all. if they don't like what people are thinking the gov't can just send some virtual spam propoganda. the worst part of this is... imagine what election time will be like. i think we will go insane

[ing]

hey compman what lordX is saying is true they wont tell you the bad things they can with it they will just say is fir your good look at the 12sep woln't be easier to have chip to now where are the terrorist ore nerds they make it look like they are heroes and they are fighting for you and protecting you but what really they want is to have you at there will it all the same every goverment they dont want you to think what it is not okay with them even if it doesn't look like it they are like or worse than any dictator than has been on earth and with that tecnology just imagine if somebody like Hitler or Stalin.
they will put it like a candy delicious in the outside but deadly inside i pity you and the rest of the world that thinks like you it looks like the majority of the people are alike in thinking (they dont think) they just follow around where ever someones tell them if what lordX says about the Bible (and i believe it) i hope there will people who will stand up and say hell no am not gonna surrender my freedom with out a good fight , has a smart guy i prefare to die in freedom than to live with out it.
but well those things are at the end of the corner and still there are fools who see whats hapenning and dont care, may god help us with people who think like you.
the next time when you see the news listen carefully and open your eyes because no one can see it for you if you dont see it how dangerous that chip is well no one can make you understand if you dont want to here a friends councel



well arent we HACKERS if that chip gets to public lets HACK it at least we will able to put a front to them.



tx for listening