"100 Years of Great Women."

[TotalChaos(D~Sq]

"100 Years of Great Women." Should Jane Fonda be included or not?

I received this in my email today and thought I would share this and get other peoples opinions.

This has been around before and getting a little worn, but least we forget what she did. It is interesting she was not arrested and tried for treason. A point I am sure that John Walker's attorneys will not miss.

Refer to attached picture.

Subj: KEEP THIS MOVING; ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton.From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me.

This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget


Should she be included or not

[TotalChaos(D~Sq]

"100 Years of Great Women." Should Jane Fonda be included or not?

I received this in my email today and thought I would share this and get other peoples opinions.

This has been around before and getting a little worn, but least we forget what she did. It is interesting she was not arrested and tried for treason. A point I am sure that John Walker's attorneys will not miss.

Refer to attached picture.

Subj: KEEP THIS MOVING; ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton.From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me.

This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget


Should she be included or not

[rcgreen]

My answer to this is the same as in the
John Walker Lindh fiasco.

The fault lies with the US presidents, then and
now, who find it more politically comfortable
to fight undeclared wars, and with the
congress for failing to discipline the president.

If congress had declared war against North Vietnam,
then jane would have been afraid to take the risk.
People who did similar things in WWII were hanged.
:cool:

[rcgreen]

My answer to this is the same as in the
John Walker Lindh fiasco.

The fault lies with the US presidents, then and
now, who find it more politically comfortable
to fight undeclared wars, and with the
congress for failing to discipline the president.

If congress had declared war against North Vietnam,
then jane would have been afraid to take the risk.
People who did similar things in WWII were hanged.
:cool:

[KorpDeath]

I think she should've been hung back then. I don't agree with our esteemed colleague rcgreen, I refuse to blame the gov't for one person's actions. She should've been shot right after taking that picture with the supposed U.S. soldier's skull impaled on the front of it. And I'm guaranteeing that if they would've shot her then, it would've saved us from those horrible work-out videos.

[gold eagle]

nice post Korp. Yeah those videos, my sister used to work out to those.

[Pooh-Bear]

What a bitch, she should not be on the list.
However, I´d like to see the American list of 100 years of great men.

[thesecretfire]

Holy crap, is this actually true? I don't really know who Jane Fonda is, before my time by a little ways.

[souleman]

Well, I gotta agree about the video's. Those make her a traitor more then anything else. Like I always say, there are 2 sides to every story...Jane Fonda just happened to be an "icon" so she gets the fall.

During the Vietnam conflict, the majority of Americans were anti-war. Where do you think we got all the hippies from? When American soldiers came home, they were spit on, harrased, and attacked by American Civilians for being "baby killers". These soldiers were doing exactly what they were told to do, but because civilians didn't know the entire story, they just heard the women and childeren were being killed, they would attack the soldiers on their return. Hanoi Jane didn't know the truth about Vietnam either. She agreed with 90% of america, that the soldiers shouldn't be there. Because they volunteered to go, they were the guilty party. It wasn't until after the soldiers came home that we found out that North Vietnam would strap explosives to a baby and use it as a weapon against Americans/South Vietnam.

Because she was a celeberity, she is classified as a traitor. Techinally, she is no different then any "hippy" from that time frame. How many people do you want to hang today?

[jcmcb]

Total -

Shame on you for not following the Second Rule of AO: Check Google first. Had you done that you would have found that this is nothing more than a vicious Urban Legend/Political tool. Here are some links you should check out:

http://www.snopes2.com/military/fonda.htm

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/hanoijane.htm

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa110399.htm

Truth: Jane went to vietnam, was used for propganda.

Truth: prisoners who refused to play along were beaten

False: No prisoners passed notes to Jane

False: no prisoners were killed because of Jane

[Pooh-Bear]

Thanks jcmcb.
I´m dissapointed in you TotalChaos.
nuff said

[TotalChaos(D~Sq]

I'm going to start off with quoting my self on this post on my opinion







This is for Pooh-Bear who gave me negative antipoints for "Check your bloody info first "

ok fact.
In 1971 Jane Fonda organized FTA, (**** the Army) a network of subversive political cells established at U.S. Army posts around the world and designed to weaken the Army by breaking down discipline and encouraging troops to go AWOL and refuse orders.

She went there to make turmoil and propaganda

Here are some quotes from her radio broadcasts

The Vietnamese fighters are her "friends."

"I want to publicly accuse Nixon here of being a new-type Hitler whose crimes are being unveiled."

"The Vietnamese people will win."

"Nixon is continuing to risk your [American pilots'] lives and the lives of the American prisoners of war … in a last desperate gamble to keep his office come November. How does it feel to be used as pawns? You may be shot down, you may perhaps even be killed, but for what, and for whom?"


"I am very honored to be a guest in your country, and I loudly condemn the crimes that have been committed by the U.S. government in the name of the American people against your country."


"We have understood that we have a common enemy — U.S. imperialism."

Those are Quotes from radio hanoi for the US serviceman and woman.

All this was said in a 2 week period in "1972" You tell me is that TREASON?

Ok one more Quote when Jane Fonda appeared on 20/20 and was interviewed by Barbara Walters
The Apology
"I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did," Fonda said. "I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm . . . very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."


Or try this (http://www.moorej.org/jane/xray.html)

This is a good one (http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=195402)
you will see I got the quotes from last link is from a book and if the info was wrong some one would sue by now.

And as you can see it does say that the story of the POW's handing her messages and her turning them over to the North Vietnamese was false, But it also confirms some of the other stories are true. So as far as I can tell it isn't all Urban Legend. As you read the the story you will see it sets the story straight and she did do a lot of things that in themselves are considered TREASON so if she did things which are considered TREASON then she is guilty of TREASON and is a TRAITOR and does not deserve any award for being included in the 100 years of great women.

ps. Sorry I cant give you more bloody info right now if needed I will.

[jcmcb]

Total -

First off, your post was a LIE! It told a story about someone you don't like that DIDN'T happen. Maybe Jane Fonda is a stupid person, maybe she shouldn't be on some imaginary list of 100 Greatest Women, but that doesn't excuse you posting inaccurate information. If Jane Fonda wanted to, she could sue you for defemation of character, libel, and slander....and she would win....

Oh and BTW

[quote]

"The Vietnamese people will win."

[quote/]

They did....

[TotalChaos(D~Sq]

First of all did you read the two links in my last post? How can you say it was a lie. She did say all those things in her radio broadcast, and she pose for those pictures. The last post I did those were all direct quotes from her so how it is a lie. OOH BTW the list is not imaginary it is the LADIES HOME JOURNAL LIST.
Here are some definations for you. How can it be slander if it is TRUE. The things she said in her broadcasts"I am very honored to be a guest in your country, and I loudly condemn the crimes that have been committed by the U.S. government in the name of the American people against your country." and her actions are subversive ( : a radical supporter of political or social revolution) and treason is disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior. I really don't know how much clearer you can get. And if is was all a lie why did she apologize?, How did the book get published?
I am not saying that some of the things said about her were not false or were not exaggerated case in point, the story about pows passing her notes, that was proven to be false and I stated that. You can not argue what she said in her broadcasts! she was totally supporting our enemy.

And I think you missed the whole point of the original post.........Somebody sent that to me in my Email and I put it up and asked for other people's opinion, leaving out my own.

subversive

adj : in opposition to a civil authority or government [syn: insurgent, seditious] n : a radical supporter of political or social revolution [syn: revolutionist, revolutionary, subverter]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

treason

n 1: a crime that undermines the offender's government [syn: high treason, lese majesty] 2: disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior [syn: subversiveness, traitorousness] 3: an act of deliberate betrayal [syn: treachery, betrayal, perfidy]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

[jcmcb]

Total -

I am sorry, I was refering to your original post, I though I was clean... damn this imperfect english language...

As for your second post, yeah your right, she was stupid...the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

And this is real...but is the Ladies Home Journal? Remember - there is no spoon....

Seriously though, bad form on the orignal post, but good save...

[chsh]

Can I ask one simple question? Who cares? I certainly don't, and if any Vietnam vet is going to get up in a fuss about something as stupid as this after having endured the torture and beatings of being in a POW camp, they need to sit back and try and put things in perspective. If people could learn to let things go and not hold on to some grudge like children, they'll find it a lot easier to move on with their lives. Nobody died because of Jane Fonda. Nobody was tortured because of her. She wasn't the one hanging a soldier by his broken arm. She didn't beat them. If you're going to accuse someone of being a bad person, at least do it for a reason other than 'they have a different opinion'. The public obviously wasn't too outraged, they still went to see her films and bought her workout videos.

The basic fact is that this is their magazine, they can put whomever they want in it on their lovely little list. It doesn't change anything at all, does it?

People really need to start getting REAL and stop worrying about the stupid little things.