A thought about our attitude to lUsers

[Und3ertak3r]

This link was sent to me today.. and it has provided food for thought. Especially as I was tought to look to "Being a Problem Solver, and not play the Blame Game"

i am posting this as food for thought .. I do not agree with the full article

http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20040311.html

Well, I have a word for these contemptuous techies: Save your energy for solving the problem instead of blaming its victims. Mainstream users shouldn't have to be IT experts to operate their computers.


My thought is the artical writter is asking for a no Brainer solution for users.. Ok that is fine..
BUT when you own a car.. does it automaticly Fuel and Oil itself?
and will it Stop at red lights and avoid errent traffic on the road? and tell you that the left you just made should have been right.....NO.. (ok some smart a$$ will be able to say yes on the last one)

The driver has some responsabilities.. so it is with computer users.

But you will find that given to Joe or Jane Average.. this artical will strike a positive cord.. and when dealing with these people do we try to assert our Nerdish authority.. or are we looking for a simpler solution for that person..

Just a few thoughts..

"Oh Gee a message for me, with photo's of our meeting... dunno who it is .. I'll open the attachment.. could be some good pron...drool drool"


Cheers

[moxnix]

This guy seems to just want to make the problem even bigger and badder.Instead of lectures, consumers need Microsoft to build into Windows an effective, free, constantly updated security service requiring little or no user intervention. This service would fend off all kinds of threats and invasions of privacy, including viruses and spyware, without getting all tangled up in academic distinctions.
I guess he wants a car that drives itself, gets its own gas and oil, does all its own maintainence, and of course is free to him. (and all from Microsoft....lol)
Doesn't want much does he.

[THEJRC]

before delving into this one, how many of you have actually sat down and trained your users? beyond the 5 minute "this is outlook, heres your keyboard, I'm going to assume you know what your doing"

and even more inevitable, how many of you work at a place where senior management gives you the ability to train those users, where management takes a proactive stand towards proper methodology...

eh I cant stand users in the same sense, but you do need to realize that most often the users themselves are not the problem, it's the lack of training. people dont expect us to know even the basics about forklift operation why do we think they should all have the basics? After all, you do need to carry a license to drive a car, which you pass a test to get proving you know the "basics", how many of your users have a "Luser permit"

just throwing another log on the fire

as far as the article goes, it could happen... but isnt this just another cry for yet another service we'll take for granted untill it nips us in the rear?? The idea of a 1 step solve all solution in the technology isnt going to cut it, the solution is in how we utilize the technology now, not what comes out next week.... perhaps the idea of a user liscense isnt such a bad one eh.....

[spurious_inode]

This kind of attitude is at the heart of the whole problem with security in the Windows world to begin with. Users aren't accustomed to having to ever do anything for the computer.

They (computers) are not an autonomous being sent by the god's to be man's endentured servant awaiting our every desire. It's a bunch of sand and conductive metal running instructions that are guranteed to be flawed in some way or another.

People should get used to the idea of continuing to have to run security updates on their machines and make their own breakfast for the foreseeable future....

-- spurious

[nihil]

Hi Undies :)

You answer is:

£$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$££$

€?...................... :eek:

before delving into this one, how many of you have actually sat down and trained your users? beyond the 5 minute "this is outlook, heres your keyboard, I'm going to assume you know what your doing"

A very good point, and the answer is "yes!" If you have been responsible for development AND apps support, and manage your team you would know that it makes sense? I used to monitor time spent by my team.............once support got beyond 25% it was time to prepare a training session (or dig one out) and talk the user managers into letting you run a training course?

MCMR was the motto.............. "My Customer, My Responsibility"..........

ACK!..........I really miss the dragons............ :D

I am feeling old....................she will probably report me?

[Und3ertak3r]

yes nihil, good ole LSD

with margins as low as 5% on retail pc's (and lower), the retailer wont be helping out with the training of the user.. and corporate enviroments fix is to lock the systems down to the point that the user can't get into trouble (hehe they hope)

Too many 10 year old trainers, of 30+ yr old users, and not forgetting Bill the butcher who uses a computer at work, he knows..

I saw that artical as a reason to think about HOW I was approaching my end of the problem..

As things change.. my work and time will change..

HEre is food for thought..

nVidia are now building Firewalls.. not the external boxes.. but a new chipset that will be like the NorthBridg chip memcontroller/AGP/Firewall in one.. there ya go a problem solved at the hardware level.. hmm not realy.. Bill the butcher may accidently disable that in BIOS thinking that is why the onboard video won't work.. beyond 800x600.. or because the cpu is over heating.. All problems are software arent they..

Cheers

[The3ntropy]

We train users.

One a month there is a mandatory session that the users must attend at least once a year, or their account expires. We teach them the basic concepts of the computer, how to use it, what the icons are, what their network drives are, what the antivirus and firewall do, et cetera. We teach them what the computer does and the basics of how it does it. We do however, have in-line virus scanners and firewalls 'on the borders', along with Diskeeper software to push defrags. Laptops can only connect to the wifi network with the WEP key which we hardly ever give out unless really necessary, and almost every single computer already has the removable drives removed. It would be hard for our users to sabotage us. The proxy server is transparent and it is running the web filter software and tracking software. VNC is used for remote administration, with VNC and the web tracking stuff, we have a good fear factor in place on the users, just them knowing that I can read their e-mail stops them from trying to check hotmail or yahoo for the most part, neither of which work by the way. When we 'take control' of their mouse and keyboard with VNC too they always think that is funny, but we also remind them that we can check on them silently and always see what they are doing.

So I guess we already gas and oil the |users computers for them, but as long as I keep on getting paid to do it, hell I won't complain. Just like the guy at the full-service station has a job to pump my gas and change my oil. But I still have to drive way over there, damn, I need to change that, maybe he can gas and oil up my car in my garage, that sounds good, I think I will ask him that next time, hmmmmm

[Vorlin]

My two cents:

Education and the sharing of knowledge is key. No doubt about that and yes, myself and others are inherently to blame when we show up and say "Here's Outlook, here's your keyboard, you're good to go". That's why I'm trying to take a more proactive role and show people how things work, what a correct answer to their question may be, etc.

Here are the problems with that kind of attitude:

1: The first kind of user isn't going to care about knowing more and will brush off anything given with lines like "I don't need to know any of that garbage" or "I don't care to know anything more", etc. These are the worst, in my book, because they bring down what I consider a very good career. They ridicule the IT staff on hand (don't ever say 'Wow, that's a first' or something because they'll respond with a smartass comment like "Oh aren't you supposed to know everything? What do we pay you for?"), don't do anything you tell them to (or do it with the utmost aggravation and frustration shown), things like that. These are the kind who I don't give two rats asses about.

2: The second kind of user is one who wants to learn and wants to know more about how they can be more productive and spending 10 minutes with them gives them the world because finally they have someone who can answer their questions. I have no problems with these people, as they seem to blame their computer problems on themselves when it may or may not be the case. Helping them is a great thing because they appreciate it 100x over and write things down, try to remember what you tell them...no issues there.

The above two are the most prevalent that I know of. With the first kind, I'm forced to smile, nod my head yes, and deal with some slackass jackoff who's downing me, my career, and the computer they ****ed up to begin with because they thought they knew what they were doing. I hate dealing with them. They've made up their minds about it and I'm making up mine. With the second kind, I don't mind helping out but my knowledge IS worth money and they get X amount of time for free. Not bad untill the same person is hogging my time for every little thing. This is the problem when someone realizes they have a fountain of knowledge to pull from.

Well, I have a word for these contemptuous techies: Save your energy for solving the problem instead of blaming its victims. Mainstream users shouldn't have to be IT experts to operate their computers.

And I have a word for users like yourself. We can be contemptuous because chances are, half the problems are recurring issues that've been explained ten times over (like DO NOT OPEN ATTACHMENTS UNTIL YOU ARE SURE) to the same dumbass idiot who refuses to take lessons from someone 20 years their younger because of pride. Show me a little respect and I'll show you some. Plain and simple, just like everywhere else.

I don't mean the kinds of software-security suites now available -- bundles of individual programs. I'm talking about a truly unified, seamless service, controlled and maintained over the Internet, that would take on the whole problem.

This guy really has no idea what he just asked for. I love it when non-programming types (like sales and marketing people) throw out something that's so simple in nature, but underlying work is amazingly detailed and horribly complex. And as far as 'controlled and maintened over the Internet', forget that. That's called "Big Brother".

[ShagDevil]

This guy really has no idea what he just asked for. I love it when non-programming types (like sales and marketing people) throw out something that's so simple in nature, but underlying work is amazingly detailed and horribly complex
Vorlin, I couldn't agree with you more. Being an ex-programmer, I know that convenience is one of the hardest things to code.

The Washington Post declared Mr. Mossberg "one of the most powerful men in the high-tech world
Yet, this guy has nothing even remotely close to any kind of techincal degree or certification.
he graduated from Brandeis University and the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism
In May of 2001, he received an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Rhode Island

Ok, so the guy has no technical degree. big deal. There's lots of people without technical degrees who are good with computers. Maybe he's one of those people that just knows computers and picks things up on the 'fly'. And maybe, just maybe, the guy is so good, he can code an entire program while he's watching re-runs of Laverne & Shirley and giving his dog a bath.
Then I read this:
Instead of lectures, consumers need Microsoft to build into Windows an effective, free, constantly updated security service requiring little or no user intervention. This service would fend off all kinds of threats and invasions of privacy, including viruses and spyware, without getting all tangled up in academic distinctions

Yes, Mr. Mossberg, and I recently emailed Mr.Coffee and told them that I'd like to see a new coffee maker that can not only make my coffee for me but, also do my laundry, wash my car, walk my dog, answer the phone, pay my bills, cut my toe nails, and make waffles.

I just noticed that I offered no solutions nor ideas towards the matter at hand. I apologize for my rant.
It seems Mr. Mossberg would like to make computer security and users mutually exclusive. Fact is, you can't. I think educating your users is an integral part of computer security. Now, I know this may seem odd but I actually like my users to inadvertantly make mistakes such as downloading viruses, spyware, adware, and trojans. It makes it easier for me to demonstrate the importance of why they should be cautious about their online activity. I let them see the entire cleaning process while I do it. Not only do they think it's "neat" as they put it but, I make them aware of the effort that's put forth in order to maintain a clean network. I don't alienate myself from my users, instead I make them part of the ongoing process. I am however lucky in the fact that my users are genuinely concerned about the health of the network and for that, I am grateful.
I guess my point is simple. educating your users is much more important than an end-all solution that Mr. Grossberg is looking for.

[phishphreek]

I find it kind of funny that you mention this...

I just covered this article and a follow up article regarding this in an oral presentation just a few months back...

I'll have to try to find the notecards I used along with the "protect yourself online" handouts that I passed out.

Take a look at Tim Mullen's article...

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/236

I side with Mullen...

I've looked high and low to references from security people calling for the end user to be an IT expert to use their system, and I couldn't find one. You don't have to be a master chef in order to cook meats properly. You don't have to be a master mechanic to drive a car, nor do you have to be a NASCAR driver in order to buckle up and not drink and drive.

And you don't have to be a computer expert to load AV software and install a firewall.

[Vorlin]

Did I read "JOURNALISM" in ShagDevil's post? Holy crap, no wonder "Grossberg" (rofl) sounded so smart in his thread!

Ok, here we go...amazingSuperNewAndImprovedDoesItAll Program...v1.0.0.

Firewall
Stateful and stateless packet inspecting covering most of the layers if not all; remember, this guy wants it all. Has a huge learning curve which there's a "default" which allows most common applications (IE, Explorer, WMSN, AIM, Yahoo!, etc...) and has the most intelligent "AI" code that knows when the user is trying to do something as opposed to a program randomly wanting to access the Inter/Intra-net. Blocks everything by default except said assumed rules in prior mention. All programs that are reported show file, file size, location, standard stuff...

Problems
1. Who's to say what is accepted and not? A firewall should ask every time a program that's not on the list tries to get on the inter/intra-net. Common knowledge, right? What happens when a common user is asked? Either they A) say "Always allow" without reading anything about it or B) they somehow find the "Allow all traffic", which defeats the entire purpose of the firewall.
There are more that could be mentioned, but this is the biggest one I've seen.

Antivirus
Auto-updates every day and installs anything found because the server's considered trusted (it's on the "allowed" list in the associated firewall, which breaks rules 1-10 on default firewall settings). Scans the entire drive every week, regardless of the time needed because of the gigs of data any given user may have. Scans every file opened, altered, created, changed, etc... Checks when a file is loaded in memory versus the physical file to see if anything suspicious could happen, regardless of whether or not the user has enough available ram because they're trying to load 483 pictures from their digicam while they're playing music and doing a spreadsheet ... on 128mb of ram that came with their spanking new Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway.
While we're at it, let's deploy a measure of Tripwire...AV could check MD5 sums on the database cache version of a file versus what's actually on disk. This way anything could be reported if it changed. The default database scan would include system files and most important directories.

Problems
1. Full scans take a while, regardless. Especially if it's an end-user who doesn't think about the stuff they load onto a machine so veritable THOUSANDS of files are going to be there and when said scan kicks off, if a user is on, chances are they'll say "I can do this later" or "WTF IS THIS SH!T" and will cancel it. YAY WE HAVE CIRCUMVENTED THE ENTIRE AV SCAN BY A CANCEL BUTTON WOOHAAAAA! So yeah, right...where were we? What's that you say, no cancel button? Great! Here comes the whole Big Brother regime!

2. File checking isn't a problem, since it's on an on-demand basis, but loading any given file into memory and then having it checked with another "safe" copy in memory is. Imagine the memory needed for that? I don't even know, so I won't guess. But we're making sure they're safe, even though we're killing performance...who cares!

3. I can't even imagine the implications of a tripwire-like database that's supposed to manage itself when an end-user might have any say in the matter, not even including the things that go wrong when windows updates itself (per this guy's idea) and a ton of system files get updated. Nobody can EVER verify the integrity 100% of any given thing at an immediate time so if the AV/Firewall locks access to that file because it doesn't match the database cache and is newer than the stored one. Oh, you didn't need that svchost.exe did you? I'm sorry, you lose, delete now... So if a file is denied access by the database's own program (called filelock.exe, for example) and is denied all activity to the inter/intra-net by the firewall and can't alter any files per the AV locking it down....what if that file is filelock.exe? What happens then? If you're lucky, the system loops and dies. If not, filelock.exe is now out of the equation and it's PARTY TIME AT IP ADDRESS ... YEEEHAAAAAAWWWWWW! Or better, what if it was the firewall itself (main executable)? And the AV? You see where THIS is going.

Spyware
Fairly straight-forward. Have a reference list just like Spybot and Ad-Aware use, have it loaded into memory at boot time and have the real-time monitor active. But that's kind of a trojan method, wouldn't you say? If you don't the user a choice? Who cares, onward we go. Prevent all modifications to the registry and keep files from being created that are considered spyware. Run scans every week and get rid of anything that matches the reference list.

Problems
Real-time monitor would be shot in the face by the user after about the second time of installing something. Here's a live scenario. Joe Blow buys an Nvidia card, comes home and installs it. He's installing the drivers when the alert window pops up and says "Hey, someone's trying to put something into HKLM/Software/Microsoft/Driver/etcetcetc, want to allow or disable?". He doesn't know to look for NVidia because NVidia doesn't name everything as such and hits "DENY". No problems there...immediately he's asked if Windows really SHOULD have that unsigned driver and accidentally hits cancel because he was hitting the deny button (or even the allow button) on his alert window for spyware. The machine reboots and things are ALL F'D UP because now, the drivers weren't loaded right, there's no uninstall because it never made it into the registry and a reinstall doesn't work because some string that sounds like vaguely pronounceable line-noise is out there. And this is just one that I can think of.

The main issue is that if you prevent the registry from being written to, you don't put anything needed in, registered dlls aren't inserted, no uninstall strings are written, no aliases or variables are allowed in so if you did have the program "installed", it wouldn't work. Ever. More on this, but I'm writing a book, blah...

So, I think I'll write Mr. Mossberg of the Journalism-type and see what he thinks. I'm sure he has all the answers to these petty, easily-resolved problems.

...

I think I exploded my brain writing this...the problems that I can think of don't even come close to the problems that would be encountered upon releasing a program like this to the masses.

[moxnix]

But.....but....Mr. Mossberg said that Microsoft had to do it for free.Instead of lectures, consumers need Microsoft to build into Windows an effective, free, constantly updated security service requiring little or no user intervention.
And you know that if MSN builds something, especially for free, that it would be of unsurpassed quality and simplicity. I mean, doesn't their past track record prove that?

*cough.....cough* Sorry got to go get this bad taste out of my mouth after saying that.

[The Grunt]

.Originally posted by Vorlin
1: The first kind of user isn't going to care about knowing more and will brush off anything given with lines like "I don't need to know any of that garbage" or "I don't care to know anything more", etc. These are the worst, in my book, because they bring down what I consider a very good career. They ridicule the IT staff on hand (don't ever say 'Wow, that's a first' or something because they'll respond with a smartass comment like "Oh aren't you supposed to know everything? What do we pay you for?"), don't do anything you tell them to (or do it with the utmost aggravation and frustration shown), things like that. These are the kind who I don't give two rats asses about.

These are the same *******s that come into the computer repair shop I work at and say "well I have a friend of a friend who's A+ and MSCE certified and he said you guys screwed up upgrading my RAM!!!" Then we ask what the problem with it is, and they say something like "well you guys did it, it's your fault, you should know what the F***ing problem is!!!" They really cuss us out and all, even when there's kids around. Then we crack the case and the RAM modules are nice and black. We say "Are you sure you didn't change any settings or anything?" "No, you guys screwed it up, fix it now." We say "you've had this for 6 months since we upgraded your RAM, how long has it been messed up" "Ever since you retards screwed it up"

That cycle continues for a while before they get really hot headed and leave, then come back a few hours later and ask for some new RAM. On their way out we tell them not to screw with latency settings on the motherboard. We put it in for that dude and the CAS settings in the BIOS was on 1-3-5... That will burn up even the highest quality RAM, leads me to believe some folks should just not be allowed around computers.. Gotta love redneck/hick retards...

[linux_obo]

Having read all the above points the one thing that stands out is a point of view from a "regular" user, where as I'm far from a regular user, how many of you here have experienced that look of dis-belief from your car mechanic when you explained how your car's oil light came on and started making funny noises but you thought it would go away if you turned up the stereo ?? (Extream example I know and not very realistic) the point I make is an embaressment factor here, most PC users use 1 or 2 apps on a regular basis the rest don't get touched, I mean why would a user KNOW that his/her AV needs to have regular updates to function correctly ?? after all it's sitting there in the SysTray so it must be working huh ??.

We all have a responsiblity to make the asking of questions LESS painfull for all users, if however after that point the same question is asked over and over and over again then some thing some where is not sticking in the users mind.......

[The Grunt]

Yea, but keeping your AV updated is like checking your oil and gassing up your car. My mom is completely dumb with cars and computers, but she knows to update her AV and windows, and she knows to gas up the car and to check the oil every 2-3 gassups...

If we make it more of a common sense type thing like checking your oil, then users should catch on properly, yea, we still need to go to the mechanic to get our carberator replaced (some of us anyways) just like users still need us to rid spyware or remove a virus...

[gore]

Oh **** the users. Until I make more than they do for cleaning up after them, and them getting nothing but a "Please be more careful next time" after having one release a worm on the whole network because the little sign saying don't open attachments, and don't ever open anything ending in...Anything but .rtf and then watching an admin be chewed out for not making warnings bigger... Blah!

If your job description involves using a computer, then you should know how to actually USE it. I have worked in fast food while morons who think you have to print something 700 times to make sure it prints right get 3 times as much an hour sit in front of a machine all day that they know nothing about.

I can't wait to start my company up, any "users" I have will be beaten with a bag of thin wire terminators for every dumb mistake they make. Of course that will be in the contract in small print so no legal action can be put against me. If they don't like it, Burger King requires no computer skills.

-Gore, the AO BOFH - Luser Abuser.

[Vorlin]

And it's gore from downtown!!!!!111

linux_obo, I agree that we all have areas we're not exactly brain surgeons in, but damn...I can only explain the same thing to the same user concerning the same problem that happened... I mean, you only put your hand on a hot stove eye only once, don't you? Burn your ass good one time and it doesn't happen again, right? So why would it be different for someone who has to open every attachment because some email said "I just need a friend" or "I'm a sad girl" (two real subject lines in previous virii) and you're stuck fixing their POS that's never been defragmented and the systray is bigger than the taskbar.

[ammo]

Personnaly, I'm usually rather tolerant of my users. I don't expect them to update their AV or defrag their drives themselves periodically, if I wan't that to happen, it has to be automated (and is).

What gets to me however, is:
a. when users refuse to understand that with computers, like cars or any other type of machines, things can and do go wrong from time to time, and that it's not (usually/necessarly) the admin's fault that it happens. After all, do you blame your mechanic for getting a flat tire, running out of gas or for your alternator giving out?

b. when users call you up because something is not working and refuse to give you more information than "my e-mail is not working" or "the internet is broken" no matter how much coaching/questionning you do. There's nothing more frustrating than being told "e-mail is not working", to which you ask "why/what makes you say that? is there an error message?..." and then getting the "it just doesn't work, I don't know anything else, that's your job, etc.". How the hell am I supposed to help you if you won't say what's wrong specifically? When you go to the doctor, so you just say "I'm sick, fix me" when you broke leg and not tell him where it hurts, how it happens...

c. When users don't try the most basic things to fix a problem. Example: last week, we changed domaine name and I redirected our website from the old url to the new with mod_rewrite. Our website is set as the home page on our computers by default. For some reason internet explorer redirected to the new url but stuck on a blank page instead of loading from the new url. The only thing to do to fix it was a stop/reload on the page. No one even tried it, in fact when I told them they said "why didn't you advise us about the change and that we would need to do this (stop/reload)"! :sight:

d. The fact that users don't appreciate when everything is going well. We haven't had a single hack or virus outbrake in the 3 years I've been the admin, while at the same time I've had to rebuild the network almost from scratch and we've added nearly 80 computers (out of ~120 total) and upgraded 3 versions of windows... Heh...

Oh well, got to go study if I wan't to pass these 2 last courses to get my BSc diploma this summer ;)


Ammo

[The3ntropy]

Gore > You should try out our policy, it works good, we block all atachments and downloads by default.

We just treat everyone like the baby that they are. We know that they are stupid and treat them like that. We make sure that we talk nice and slow whenever they call us, which makes them call less, and we reply with long drawn out complicated multipage e-mails to simple questions, which makes them e-mail less.

[Palemoon]

Great thread, and a simple fact is in the real worl you will run across the biggest moron in your life and yep they have a degree and yep the are well above you and there are few CEO's that actually know how a computer works and good luck training them the foot stompers that say but Bill says it ain't so and go off to doctor the books.

Training begins first to let people know that M$ does not have all the answers. The text is the new employees manual is there for a reason. You down laod programs install them first reason to be written up it clearly states your company supplyed computer is not yours, also clearly stated doing so may result in spyware, trojans and other nasty stuff that may take out our servers or crash your system and yes you will loose all your local information and your email. When we are lucky this sort of thing is policy it is actually read and understood. It is about the bottom line for business right now back up tapes made onto no longer supported formats on well best put 8 track tapes with no deck let alone the software. Fault whom you wish minor details can kill a business, unless all of us in what we do can support the business we provide in what ever area no amount of geek skills will save us if we do not understand the very industy who's computers we support. Rare I give points here been gone a bit the T3n I can tell actually works, knows and supports the business he know's with skills and has the means to make them fact.

[Icefyre24]

Vorlin is right about the two types of people who use computers.

In my (small) town, these are the two kinds of people that I run into the most.

If the user is willing to spend a few minutes learning about what I did to fix their computer
then I sit down with them and give them a K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) lesson. I try to keep
it as simple as possible.However, I know that if another prob arises in the future, they will call me, but at least they have a better idea of what I am trying to do.

Incidentally the teaching not only helps them but helps the teacher to quickly create
different teaching strategies for different people as well.

It sure taught me patience with Type-A , peptic ulcer, bottom line personalities.

The other people who just want it fixed, get it fixed and I give them my card. Case Closed

I sympathetically understand the people's point of view. because there is so much out there and with viruses and worms on the news, they get antsy and to be totally honest, I cant blame them.

[muert0]

To be one of these users do you have to have some type of college degree or experience? I don't even have a highschool diploma and I can keep my system up to date. They don't have any mandatory classes for these people in college?
I fix computers for people on the side of my job as a cook. Which mostly what I fix is simple little crap like cleaning out viruses, trojans and spyware and installing hardware for them. I try to tell them how to do all of this stuff on their own but half the time they come back to me in 3-4 months with the same problems. I guess the only point to this is that they just want someone else to do the crap and let them play with what they think is a toy.

[allenb1963]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=258953#post761295) by muert0
To be one of these users do you have to have some type of college degree or experience? I don't even have a highschool diploma and I can keep my system up to date. They don't have any mandatory classes for these people in college?
I fix computers for people on the side of my job as a cook. Which mostly what I fix is simple little crap like cleaning out viruses, trojans and spyware and installing hardware for them. I try to tell them how to do all of this stuff on their own but half the time they come back to me in 3-4 months with the same problems. I guess the only point to this is that they just want someone else to do the crap and let them play with what they think is a toy.

The only requirement for Lusers is a pulse......

[The3ntropy]

The only requirement for Lusers is a pulse......


I am not too sure that all of our |users have a pulse

[gore]

Originally posted here (http://www.AntiOnline.com/showthread.php?threadid=258953#post761301) by The3ntropy
I am not too sure that all of our |users have a pulse

After the first Virii outbreak, mine wouldn't.

And since I'm replying I guess I can throw in a screen shot of what a Ramones video looks like playing on SuSE Linux 9.1 Professional ;)

[muert0]

I have a big card board flyer for a ramones show printed in 198?. And I have a pulse anyone hiring?:)