Strange boot-up problem

[nihil]

I have just come across a rather weird one that might interest you :)

The machine is a Pentium/ 128Mb RAM running WinME (fully updated) IE6 (fully patched).

On boot up it would either attempt to run scandisk and stall, or start the boot up and windows desk top load, then stall. On looking at the processes msgsrv32 had stopped responding. (sounds familiar?)

The strange part is that the system will boot if you go into safe mode, let scandisk run, then do a warm restart!

On powerdown, the "it is now safe to turn off your computer" message appears. On the next start up it attempts to run scandisk and stalls as previously described.

:confused:

I have discovered that disabling the firewall (ZoneAlarm) automatic load on boot up, letting the machine boot, then starting ZoneAlarm manually resolves the problem and the machine boots and runs normally.

I am still trying to find out what ZoneAlarm is conflicting with.

The symptoms were so weird I thought they deserved a mention :eek:

[MoonWolf]

Maybe its haunted ?


But really symptons like these would make me want to reinstall windows.

[foxyloxley]

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=188803

SYMPTOMS
When you shut down or restart your Windows 98-based or Windows 95-based computer, you may receive one of the following error messages, and your computer may stop responding (hang):

MSGSRV32.EXE caused a general protection fault in module CM8330SB.DRV

EXPLORER caused a general protection fault in module CM8330SB.DRV

MSGSRV32.EXE: An error has occurred in your program. To keep working anyway, click ignore and save your work in a new file. To quit this program, click Close. You will lose information you entered since your last save.

Iexplore caused an general protection fault in module cm8330.drv
CAUSE
This issue can occur if your computer uses a sound card or a modem that is based on the C-Media CMI8330 sound chip. This sound chip is used as the basis for several sound cards, and is also used with some modems.
RESOLUTION
To resolve this issue, contact the manufacturer of your sound card or modem to inquire about the availability of an updated driver for your sound card or modem.

NOTE: If you are unable to contact the manufacturer of your sound card, you can try to use the C-Media Windows 98 sound card driver version 4.10.00.0152 or later. This driver is available on the following C-Media Web site:
http://www.cmedia.com.tw


I feel like I'm trying to teach an elder relative, how to remove the contents of an ovum, through a negative pressure loss system ...........

However, I'll post the above in case someone is reading for information purposes.

On boot up it would either attempt to run scandisk
Scandisc runs if you have failed to shut down correctly.
So, assuming that nihil is aware of the correct procedure to shut down ............... My 2c worth would be faulty software. And for me, maybe not as drastic as moonwolf:
But really symptons like these would make me want to reinstall windows.
But at least attempt a repair to the OS, if you have the CD's available ?

I believe that the F/W conflict would resolve itself when the OS is running correctly again.

[MoonWolf]

I tend NOT to have a lot of patience with winME.

Bad experience.

[nihil]

Well, I admit that 128Mb is not a lot to run WinME on, but I did run RAM Idle Pro (a memory manager), and it did not show any resorce problems.

I am guessing that this is ZoneAlarm and something else conflicting. Particularly as everything is fine if I don't let ZoneAlarm run automatically, but start it manually?

The other strange thing is that I get the message that it is safe to turn off the computer, but it tries to run scandisk on the next boot?..............this does not happen if I manually start ZoneAlarm after the boot.

Foxy~ I spent some time on the MS site and the net looking, but no reference to the error messages that I am getting...............I know that msgsrv32.exe is not an unusual one, just the locations are different.

Cheers

[rcgreen]

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q273017

This deals with the problem in general, but not with reference
to conflicts with other software. May help though.
:cool:

[Spyder32]

nihil: :eek: Scary, I'm dealing with the same exact problem. And the weird thing is, it all began after I began doing some testing work with ZoneAlarm (which is installed, although I doubt is the reason.. who knows). It even loads scandisk automatically on bootup in safe mode (scary again) and in regular mode. Anyways, I'm clueless right now..

[muert0]

Are you using ver 5.0? If so this may have something to do with it.
http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/board/message?board.id=gen&message.id=13337#M13337

EDIT: blah the thread that tells you to go to another thread to get the earlier version is a broken link.

[nihil]

Spyder~

Yes, this machine was opening scandisk in both normal and safe mode boots. The difference was that it would complete in safe mode but just freeze the box in normal mode.

Could you try booting into safe mode then "restart" (warm boot) and see if it boots normally then.

I do not think that it is the problem that Muert0 mentions, as I do not get the message, just a frozen system that I have to forcibly power down. Also, that error goes back to June, and I have a more recent version of ZA.

rcgreen's suggestion is good if you have a fast machine with a 7200rpm HDD and a large cache. What happens is that the box is shut down before the cache is written. The "fix" introduces a 2 or 3 second delay to let it finish properly. The fix has worked for me several times, but the machine I am talking about is old and slow, so that is not the issue (it was already installed anyway....reference is Q273017 btw)

You might also like to get WinPatrol from BillP Studios, I think that the link is:

http://www.winpatrol.com

Use the start programs manager and suspend :

Zlclient (Zone Alarm)
Vsmon (true vector thingy)

Then see if you can boot normally, start ZA manually, shutdown and get a normal cold boot the same as I have.

I am pretty sure that it is some sort of ZA bug/conflict that we have found :cool:

[Spyder32]

nihil: The difference was that it would complete in safe mode but just freeze the box in normal mode.

Yup, and freeze up before I have the chance to do anything.

I am pretty sure that it is some sort of ZA bug/conflict that we have found

It's starting to look like it, but I dunno.. I'ma uninstall ZoneAlarm in safe mode, reboot, and see what happens. I'm also going to be playing around with other increments that could affect it.

[nihil]

Spyder~

Yes, I couldn't even cancel the scandisk in normal mode............it had already frozen.

I increased the page buffers from 12 to 32 and that didn't help (that can help with some msgsrv32 problems ;) )

I use WinPatrol partly as a diagnostic tool as it lets you suspend programs then turn them back on a the click of a mouse.

Please let me know how you get on

Cheers

[Spyder32]

Lately, I haven't with the exception of in safe mode. In safe mode is where I've been doing all my testing and figuring things out.


Yes, I couldn't even cancel the scandisk in normal mode............it had already frozen.

Same. Anyways, I'm going to be experimenting and trying different things out today and I'll letcha know what I come up with later on in the day, k?

[Nokia]

With windows 98 there is a File Verification Utillity in the tools menu within System Information that checks all of the windows installation files to see if they have been modified from the original installation - i am presuming that this is also in Win Me ( i didnt use it long enough to be able to remember if it's there)

I make this the first thing I do when some one has a problem along these lines with a 98 box. It only takes 5 mins or so to complete and you would be suprised the ammount of time this has worked!

ZA may have inadvertantly changed a boot file/path and could be causing the problem??

Always worth a shot IMHO!!

gl

//IIRC there is also an option within the msconfig in win 98/me to disable scan disc completley on boot up? Maybe scan disc is causing it???

[Spyder32]

Nokia: Thanks, but I think once I'm fully woken up I'm going to uninstall ZoneAlarm and see what happens from there. Your probably right, it altered a boot file/path however being me means being the person finding out WHICH file/path that is ;) Anyways.. I'm off to make some coffee and then spend today figuring alot out. :)

[nihil]

Hi Spyder~

I think that I might have made some progress.

I went into WinPatrol and re-enabled ZoneAlarm (all programs are at v5.1.011.000) I gave it "restart" a couple of times, which worked.

I then "shutdown", powered off and powered back up again, and that worked! NO sign of scandisk trying to run :)

The process seems to have set ZA to boot later in the cycle, and I am wondering if that might have something to do with it? At this stage it looks like a boot conflict but I have this funny hunch that the problem actually starts with the shutdown process, which would possibly explain why we get scandisk running automatically? something must be telling it that Windows was not shut down properly.

I have noticed on several forums where ZoneAlarm "freezing" problems are discussed it sems to be a common suggestion to uninstall and do a "clean" reinstall, which would change its position in the boot cycle as well, I suspect.

I have no idea what is causing the conflict but my prime suspects are:

1. e-Trust EZArmor AV
2. Spybot S&D Resident Protection
3. Ashampoo pop-up stopper

Íáéóíéíáéííóíááé :confused:

I don't know what causes THAT! (see above) I have to send the post then edit it to clear the problem...........It is like the keyboard suddenly gets a life of its own.

Cheers

[Spyder32]

Hrmm, if something is telling ZoneAlarm that the system didn't shutdown properly, what does that have to do with it completely freezing at bootup? Still a lot of questions unanswered but what I've dug up is that there's no way we can audit anything in ZoneAlarm that has to do with scandisk, right? So technically it's a software problem that detect's a certain something (yet to be figured out) which trigger's a response from ZA saying to run scandisk automatically on bootup.

Perhaps ZoneAlarm itself was disabled/turned off in a way it shouldn't, thus it think's the system malfunctioned and shutdown improperly? I dunno.. but even if, that wouldn't explain scan disk automatically running on EVERY bootup.

[nihil]

Hi Spyder~

It is the OS (Windows) that detects the improper shutdown, not ZoneAlarm. I guess that it is looking for indicators that all services/apps have closed properly, and is not getting them.

I am not sure why it freezes if you try to boot in normal mode but will run properly in safe mode. I guess that is some sort of timing / memory conflict problem. After all, safe mode boots with the minimum of drivers and apps, hence, the lowest probability of conflicts.

I am back on running mine with ZA switched off. I think I will try a complete re-install of ZA next.

I will keep you posted :)

Cheers

[Spyder32]

Yeah, safe mode boots with sometime no drivers (I think?) and the chance is lowered by alot. Maybe Windows is detecting that (for some reason) Zone Alarm isn't shut down properly/closed properly. I'm not sure, but definitely keep me posted. :)