what is Encryption

[lokeshdb_ms]

hi there,
well i want to know is.
1. what is encryption and why is it express in form of bit's like xp support 128 bit encryption even if the machine is of 32 bit,

2. when it comes to explain about processors they are clasify as 32,64-bit what does this bit represent is it register's size or what.

Lokeshdb_ms

[Egaladeist]

Hi lakeshdb_ms,

Try this site...it seems to have alot of information and links...

http://world.std.com/~franl/crypto.html

Eg :)

[RoadClosed]

askjf;akjdf;aksljdf;alksfj;alsdjfweiruewoi utqiewurqpewoiru-230498nv=230498vqweru[qvwneporuin1=23958bn49qtq[pweromiu[q-3409=1n2v-365913n496u1nb39tqu[rvmt3=q

[MrLinus]

askjf;akjdf;aksljdf;alksfj;alsdjfweiruewoi utqiewurqpewoiru- 230498nv=230498vqweru[qvwneporuin1=23958bn49qtq[pw
eromiu[q-3409=1n2v-365913n496u1nb39tqu[rvmt3=q

Hey RoadClosed,

Is that the encrypted cipher text for "learn to use Google (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=what+is+encryption&btnG=Google+Search&meta=) to find out"? :D

[guardian alpha]

If you want everyone to google their answers, what's the point of having a forum?

Besides being able to have more personalized, informative answers that suit the per-person better on a forum?

[sec_ware]

Hi guardian alpha,


to some extent you are right with your statement. However, the first step
before bothering other people with a question should be to "do a google".
Often, as it might be in this case, the resulting answers are not satisfying or,
as so often, uncomprehensible.

A post then might look like "I googled for encryption. The definition of webopedia
gave me some idea, but I do not understand ... I don't know what is important ..."
Then we have an idea of what he knows and can adjust the level of our
response accordingly.

Sorry for being off-topic. On-topic - 3 recent links on AntiOnline:

A starter for some kind of encryption[1].
An idea of 32bit/64bit processors[2a,2b].

Cheers.

[1] http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=266338
[2a] http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265943
[2b] http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265552

[guardian alpha]

sec, I would completely agree IF the majority of the posts on AO where people asked for help started with "I googled but couldn't find...". They don't, but are still helped nonetheless.

Even the one a few days ago asking what a DoS and what a DDoS was, received help from multiple members. All without noting "I googled but couldn't find". Some people also come here and ask because they enjoy a warm community discussion of information, versus what some people feel to be cold and inorganic web searches.

RTFM went out back in the days of cliched hacker groups.

[MrLinus]

Some people also come here and ask because they enjoy a warm community discussion of information, versus what some people feel to be cold and inorganic web searches.

RTFM went out back in the days of cliched hacker groups.

Why should RTFM be gone today? The ability to do research should still be something needed. Personally, I think it's rather appaulling that people are afraid to do research. It means that you have your own desire to learn rather than depend on what someone spoon-feeds you. That's a very powerful position to be in. It means a lot more in the long run than the time it takes to do the initial research. Take the questions above:

1. what is encryption and why is it express in form of bit's like xp support 128 bit encryption even if the machine is of 32 bit,

A simple Google search on Encryption will show that it is a methodology at hiding text, often using cryptography (which is defined as crypto -- meaning hidden and graphy -- meaning writing). The Bits do not refer to CPUs but rather to key strength. In the example, IIRC, that should be a symmetric key encryption length (that is, the same key used to encrypt to decrypt) versus longer keys like those with asymmetric encryption (that is, using one key -- public key -- to encrypt while using another key to decrypt -- private key). The algorithm often determines what the key length will be.

2. when it comes to explain about processors they are clasify as 32,64-bit what does this bit represent is it register's size or what.

Now this one I can honestly say I can't give an answer that would be truly concise since I haven't spent enough time with 64-bit processors. But, my limited understanding is that it should make certain mathematical operations faster. A good quick starting article might be this one (http://www.build-your-own-computer-tips.com/64-32-bit-processors.html).

Now, the first answer I got from doing research many years ago to truly understand encryption/cryptography (starting with The Code Book by Simon Singh, who seems good at giving a nice layman understanding of crypto). Why should the ability to do research and empowering yourself be limited to a few? Why not encourage others to empower themselves to find answers? It means that rather than coming here for definitions they come here for better understanding, clarification and creation of ideas -- which does come from research and learning.

In my experience, I've found that those with limited curiosity (that is, looking for themselves) have a harder time with things like troubleshooting and truly understanding their systems.

Maybe it's just me. I'd rather empower myself through doing research and then asking for help when I don't understand the research or something I found than just asking "what is encryption"? Lastly, there are some good tuts here that if searched could be found:

http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=240923
http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265636

[guardian alpha]

Why should RTFM be gone today? The ability to do research should still be something needed. Personally, I think it's rather appaulling that people are afraid to do research. It means that you have your own desire to learn rather than depend on what someone spoon-feeds you. That's a very powerful position to be in. It means a lot more in the long run than the time it takes to do the initial research

I'm all for research. I'm all for self discovery. But I'm not for the old 1980 days when people TOLD you to RTFM. You can't assume they want or even are being spood fed, and if you feel that way then the majority of this forum is pointless. If people want answers, why not answer them? Provide links to examples, tutorials, and the like. SHOW them how to be a good researcher by showing them solid information, and how you got it. But don't 'RTFM newb!', because that not only pushes a lot of people away who are passive-agressive, but denys people who hate using google as a researching tool and prefer to research in a methodoly of collecting multiple opinions from a single source, ie. the forum posting.

Wait, multiple opinions from a single source. That sounds like google, in the first place.

Thank you for answering their question and showing them how you got there. Information needs to be taught and explained, not withheld and hoping you can 'teach' them something by pushing the into a research methodology that they may not be ready for yet, in their security timeline.

[Egaladeist]

Hi guardian alpha,

I think it's more or less a question of perception...if someone repeatedly posts questions that can normally be googled it may begin to look like he expects others to do all the work for him then...this is the type of response he would get.

Granted mistakes can be made and I'm not suggesting any were made here...but I find that mistakes are usually rectified on this site...so even though they do occur...there is a measure of checks and balances.

As I said...it's more or less a matter of perception...if lokeshdb_ms has made a number of these posts it may appear that he is not trying to contribute to his own understanding.

[guardian alpha]

if lokeshdb_ms has made a number of these posts it may appear that he is not trying to contribute to his own understanding.

My point is, however, that it is not for you to decide. It is not up to anyone here to make sure they are benifitting their knowledge to the best possible percentage. You are not these people's mothers nor mentors.

You do, however, know the answer to the questions that people ask. If you went over to a lawyer and asked them "So what happens in a case where I stole a product and gave it back, but end up being chaged?", and they responded "PFFT! Go read the book yourself! Section 11A0FE-2!". We would scoff at that. Because they have the information, because they are more comfortable on a subject that is a bit cryptic, and because it is their job... we NEED them to answer.

Because google will give answers, yes. With enough research, you can get answers. But asking on a forum entails so much more:

- Multiple answers from a singular area.
- Ability to discuss and improve upon the answers offered by others
- Examples, links, and areas that people trust. This is much faster to getting the 'good links' that explain things well rather than going through 4000 sites that have flaming skulls.

[MrLinus]

SHOW them how to be a good researcher by showing them solid information, and how you got it. But don't 'RTFM newb!', because that not only pushes a lot of people away who are passive-agressive, but denys people who hate using google as a researching tool and prefer to research in a methodoly of collecting multiple opinions from a single source, ie. the forum posting.

And at what point should I expect them to start doing this on their own? So every question that comes up someone here should answer, no matter how basic it is?


Thank you for answering their question and showing them how you got there. Information needs to be taught and explained, not withheld and hoping you can 'teach' them something by pushing the into a research methodology that they may not be ready for yet, in their security timeline.

[small rant/pet peeve -- I really only have two and this is one of them]

Thing is, I don't think I am doing that by answering them. If anything it means it's easier for them to do this: don't do research and get it from someone else. I personally dislike it when people are afraid to do research for the obvious -- and IMO this is obvious. Our society has fallen into this horrible view that everything comes on a silver platter and, gawd forbid, we learn to learn for ourselves by looking around. In that process of looking we may find something neat -- like did you know that the first instance of crypto was recorded in 5th century B.C by Herodotus (although, it would now appear farther as when I looked for that stat it now may be 1500 BC on a tablet (http://www.cryptobuddy.com/cryptographytimeline.php); I don't consider hieroglyphs themselves as crypto).

Personally, I find it rather shocking that people don't want to learn some stuff on their own. It's such an adventure -- why not go for the ride? And yet, daily, I see it unfortunately. Reality is that if people like myself and others here give all the simple answers out why would anyone want to do research and learn new and wonderful things? What's the point?

[/rant off -- sorry, just had to let it out]

[edit]

One last little thing: I unfortunately hate answering straightforward stuff because I have had in the past -- and it's annoying -- been told I'm too verbose. What's the point of answering if people don't read it and don't spend the time to comprehend? ;)

[Egaladeist]

My point is, however, that it is not for you to decide. It is not up to anyone here to make sure they are benifitting their knowledge to the best possible percentage. You are not these people's mothers nor mentors.

I think you are missing the point...most people here are here for free...devoting their time to answer people's questions...

it is NOT about being someone's parent...it is about not wasting people's time if you're not willing to help yourself.

[MrLinus]

If you went over to a lawyer and asked them "So what happens in a case where I stole a product and gave it back, but end up being chaged?", and they responded "PFFT! Go read the book yourself! Section 11A0FE-2!". We would scoff at that. Because they have the information, because they are more comfortable on a subject that is a bit cryptic, and because it is their job... we NEED them to answer.

Note: you said it -- it's their job. They get paid to answer that. And that's not a straightforward answer type question. If I asked what a law was, then I shouldn't be surprised with a response of "go find ye a dictionary and learned!". But asking for a lawyer to give an opinion of the result of a law is different. I'm asking them to define what their experience has been and what, in their professional opinion, would be the result in this situation.

If I had been asked, "what would be the best form of encryption to use for a new protocol, say for VoIP", then it would be different. It's asking for an opinion based on experience and situation. That's not something that is easily researchable.

And you're right. I'm not their mother nor their mentor. Which is even more of a reason why doing research is important. (IMO)

Because google will give answers, yes. With enough research, you can get answers. But asking on a forum entails so much more:

- Multiple answers from a singular area.
- Ability to discuss and improve upon the answers offered by others
- Examples, links, and areas that people trust. This is much faster to getting the 'good links' that explain things well rather than going through 4000 sites that have flaming skulls.

Not true for all those. I've seen posts without a single reply. I've seen some discussions deteriorate (particularly those that ask "How do I hack my girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband email??? I know they are cheating on me!!!!!") and become rather useless. So if I posted a link to goatse that'd be trusted? ;) (devil's advocate)

[guardian alpha]

Okay, you know what? I give.

I will be the one spending time to answer everyone's questions instead of telling them to RTFM. I don't mind spending the time helping, because I know that not everyone has to learn the same way you or I did. Some people enjoy manuals, some people enjoy live-interactive conversations.

I certainly won't judge or 'mother' them about how I think they should learn, because their question wasn't "What's the best way to learn and reseach, for myself?". Some enjoy cryptic man files, others enjoy warm-body discussions. We have information that we've gained through self discovery, warm-discussions, trial and error, experimentation. We can't assume that people care about it as nearly indepth or as much as we do, and thus give a rat's ass about indepth researching on a subject that they are confused about seaching in the first place.

[MrLinus]

Okay, you know what? I give.

I will be the one spending time to answer everyone's questions instead of telling them to RTFM. I don't mind spending the time helping, because I know that not everyone has to learn the same way you or I did. Some people enjoy manuals, some people enjoy live-interactive conversations.

I certainly won't judge or 'mother' them about how I think they should learn, because their question wasn't "What's the best way to learn and reseach, for myself?".

That's fine. There is no need to "give" but rather do what you choose to. However, don't berate/mother me or others if our choice of answer is to suggest that people learn how to use powerful tools like google and other search engines. You may have far more time than some of the rest of us. If you do, even better and more power to you. I don't always have 40-45 minutes to spend on a single thread, which is roughly what I've spent here. Some days I have more time to spend and am able to answer it. Others, I don't.

But that's my choice and the way I would prefer to see things since I see a lot more power in what someone can learn. *shrug*

To each their own. ;)

[guardian alpha]

I don't always have 40-45 minutes to spend on a single thread, which is roughly what I've spent here. Some days I have more time to spend and am able to answer it. Others, I don't.

So why not just leave the thread alone, rather than gving a one-liner to google? Let the people with more time handle the thread until you have ample time to come and support us?

[MrLinus]

So why not just leave the thread alone, rather than gving a one-liner to google? Let the people with more time handle the thread until you have ample time to come and support us?

Because in this case it was meant as a funny. You know, ha-ha. ;) (BTW, humour is good for the soul). And sometimes, a little poke towards a specific search (even done for them) can help show them how to use Google to their advantage. I would say that is helpful. Maybe I'm wrong...

[Egaladeist]

guardian alpha,

I think you're still not getting the point...most people here are not getting paid for this...so whatever help they can give and time they can contribute should be appreciated to the fullest.

And you're right this IS a community...therefore why are you surprised that people in a community will react in different ways than you and have opinions other than your own?

[MrLinus]

I think you're still not getting the point...most people here are not getting paid for this...so whatever help they can give and time they can contribute should be appreciated to the fullest.

Thing is, Egal, I think he does get it. However, that shouldn't preclude his view -- which does have merit. If we're here and we able to give information, then why are we afraid or unwilling to pass on our knowledge? I think that the answer to that varies from member to member; I've given some of my more recent reasons why in other posts but I also know personally when I first started I was afraid to answer because I thought I would be talked down to (as a woman, this has happened unfortunately) and because I thought I didn't have the answer -- even on the simplest of things. For some members, this is the reason. And this is a tough community. That's a very harsh reality.

I still wonder at what point, if we do offer simple answers to simple questions (particularly if those are answered already elsewhere in the forums), do we continue answering them -- especially if it's the same member over and over and over asking simple questions?

[Egaladeist]

Hi MsMittens,

especially if it's the same member over and over and over asking simple questions?
Exactly what I tried to convey to him before...that there should be an expectation that the person is willing to help himself as well as being helped...as guardian alpha himself said...the people who help are NOT their parents and can't be expected to act like parents and wipe every little nose that can't be bothered to find a kleenex themselves...sometimes you have to wipe your own nose.

I completely agree.

Eg :)

[foxyloxley]

I will be the one spending time to answer everyone's questions instead of telling them to RTFM. I don't mind spending the time helping, because I know that not everyone has to learn the same way you or I did. Some people enjoy manuals, some people enjoy live-interactive conversations.
You've only been here as GA for a few days ........ Your tutorial was a really worthwhile read, but here [AO] some of those who ASK the questions, are too lazy to READ the answers.
What will your response to a post be when you have suggested / asked / ordered the poster to read your tut [as an example] to let them sort out their problem, then you find a second thread, asking the same question in a different section of AO ?

posting the link didn't take long, easier than typing out every detail again and again, but even that is not enough for some.

You say you WILL give the time, fine, so do I, when I see a topic in which I have some experience / knowledge, but for how long ?

How many repeats before YOU say RTFM ?

It DOES and WILL happen.

I have always tried to respond to spyware / adware questions, as I had the classic learning curve of my system being so choked with the damn stuff that nothing was happening that I wanted to happen.
But I am beginning to find the impetus harder each time, as the requests never stop.

Even just posting a link to a tut on cleaning your system, with a little note added to explain, and the poster just adds another post saying s/he is STILL having problems, and could anyone help.

So why not just leave the thread alone, rather than gving a one-liner to google? Let the people with more time handle the thread until you have ample time to come and support us?

Because sometimes a one liner is all that is required.

because their question wasn't "What's the best way to learn and reseach, for myself?".

But that's the point; it IS about educating people to learn for themselves.

Checking out your profile gives us VERY little to go on about you, or your areas of expertise.
Yet your tut shows that you have [at the very least] a good working knowledge of your chosen subject. We [AO] can only make assumptions about those who post based on the answers in the profile, and the 'quality' of their posts.
As you only have a couple of posts, we do not yet know quite how to take you.
This will pass as you post more replies, and a pattern begins to emerge [The Specialist, anyone :)]
The same goes for those that post the 'basic' questions.

As for "Why do we do it ?"

Because we CAN .............

If you were to work as a network admin ?
Would you allow your people [your support crew as well as the [L]users] to do ANYTHING ?
Or would you have to be there to do it all for them ?

[guardian alpha]

foxy, I'm not sure why, but you put it in the best perspective for me to not just accept, but also swallow it down whole. :)

I can imagine it getting old all the time, honestly. I think my biggest annoyance was the RTFM/google it! Attitude. Usually those two phrases come off as annoyed, impatient, and elitist.

Like in your example, maybe helping someone out origonally in a tut or other thread, and then linking people who ask about the same problem in the future to what you said earlier; this comes off much nicer, more patient, and all while still retaining a warm-body research method that I know quite a few people enjoy. It's all about the attitude in how you ask or show someone where to look.

[foxyloxley]

this comes off much nicer, more patient, and all while still retaining a warm-body research method that I know quite a few people enjoy.

I just like to think of it as RTFM with knobs on :D

[c_sniper]

a tost for foxy~ and ~alpha,

people out there must understand this is not a personal or a group site it is of socity,
socity of different people ,from different states and contries. and information is not evenly disstributed every where

think of Affganistan! how could we[AO] expect them to know most of the things, may be hand full of there know but point is that EVERY ONE don't know.
knowledge is light iand light also have speed and takes time :)) light takes 8.5 minutes to reach us from sun (lol),......

we [AO] are light source and if light spread what the problem time moves and more and more new bies come and go gaining the knowledge, and we act as platform of knowledge.
don't forget at startup u (who critics to answer strait forward question) even don't know,
think of day when you first work over computer .................... and now when u know how to make computer work .............. all this is experience. if you don't want to share it then don't attempt to stop others from incresing it. this quetion will come out at certain interval when some one which don't know them sign in, but it's you who know them if u wan't to give them there answer give it or it's your choice because if you don't some one will do.
YOU ARE NOT ULTIMATE.

[RoadClosed]

I feel I have to chime in even though it's been discussed: After seeing very generalized questions like: "what is an access point", for the 50th time this month, one tends to get sarcastic. And takes to some off kilter humor. It's easier to post one's own google link then go through all the threads and find another link to a definition of a word in the dictionary on your desk. ESPECIALLY if the first 40 google hits have the answer right there in the description and no work at all is involved. :D Or type another paragraph detailing the same thing you typed 100 times already.

Google definitely doesn't come up with nearly enough answers. But there is nothing wrong with pointing it out for simplistic questions. A lot of it just depends on the mood (my case saturday morning stuck at work, ironically fixing an issue with SSL certificates). But many times a paragraph or entire paper would be necessary to explain something like how bits work, and in that case it's necessary to point someone to a link. And say, "hey read the link". Nothing wrong with that. Especially if someone took the time to post the link. I thought MsMittens initial post was comical and appropriate. Mine however was purely sarcastic. :lildevil:

Personalized answers do make it a better forum. But they have no point if no one reads them after the thread gets to be a few days old. This was actually a valid question, what is the difference in bits between windows 32 bit operating system and the length of encryption standards as stated in bits also, and how can something be encrypted to 128 bits when the OS only supports 32 bits. The question is flawed in a way, but it does prove some critical thinking ability in the poster. But there is a deep lack of understanding of what a bit is. And to explain that would be difficult, in fact so technical that the reader probably wouldn't read it. So google is best even though it sounds shallow on the surface. Heck he might not even know google exists and in pointing him there, she opened a whole new world. The fun realy resides (oh it's important to point out many of us answer questions for the pure enjoyment of it either in solving a problem or learning from our own research, which means we have to be interested in it). So the fun really takes off when this person comes back from google and asks clarification on what he or she has read.

[zencoder]

Perception of the members answering is a point to consider too. Starting a thread asking something (especially when their Posts = 1) that could have been easily determined with a little bit of personal effort feels and sounds a lot like what we imagine is the attitude of the average script kiddie. Does that prove the poster is a script kiddie? Of course not. But if they appear that way, many of us will react in kind.

I see this whole thread, at this point, as a description of "Welcome to the Internet. Now go the f$ck home." These are the ways that humans interact from behind blind CRT's (or LCD/Plasma panels for those of you lucky enough) over copper and fibre media. Netiquette is important, but it's not a law, and many people choose not to practice it. *Shrug*