http://www.usdoj.gov/jmd/publication...re_draft_1.pdf
I am in the middle of reading this. It is a good read. but it is published by the US goverment so i do not know how accurate it really is. But i am finding it really intresting.
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http://www.usdoj.gov/jmd/publication...re_draft_1.pdf
I am in the middle of reading this. It is a good read. but it is published by the US goverment so i do not know how accurate it really is. But i am finding it really intresting.
I remember when they first unveiled carnivore (bomb) and said that it could also (Allah) look for keywords (Hezbolah) in an email or on a mesage (assination) board and flag (militia) them for the Suit and Tie Guys back (2nd Amendment) in DC... You're right it is an interseting read...:D
man i think they should kill carnivore once and for all!!!!
Hey there 4MH, get the java ready, the suits will be visiting you shortly! ;) Seriously, the study mentioned above is by IIT Chicago, "An Independent Review of the Carnivore System", and for my money paragraph ES.2 said it all: "Questions of constitutionality of carnivore-type intercepts and trustworthiness of law enforcement agents were outside the scope of this evaluation." Most laws are no better than the people enforcing them, and you got good apples and bad apples in every barrel. That's one reason why we have to have laws written so precicely. Otherwise, it's up to individual interpretation, and the suits have free attorney access while citizen mortgages his house to defend against a law that was interpreted differently by some individual suit having a bad hair day than what the legislature intended.
:( <off soap box now> :)
Privacy in one's associations ... may in many circumstances be
indispensable to freedom of association, particularly where a group
espouses dissident beliefs.
-- John M. Harlan, Supreme Court justice, 1958
exactly veritas!! no one can know what the future will bring. to say your not a dissident today, does not mean there can not be a chain of events that will make you a dissident tomorrow, only then it will be to late.
Another thing that really frightens me about Carnivore, is the fact that the data they collect today may well fall under the freedom of information act. I don't think many people would like to find prospective employers or insurance companies querrying their personal correspondance. Already the very large corporations have had querries run for them in the Carnivore database...for a price. Its not a good thing.
So Carnivore is for sale to the private sector to? The governments should protect the privacy of there citizens not help violate it.
Though this is what Carnivore does, but it has been in effect for quite some time now. Every international call that you make is monitored for keywords like Midget mentioned. Mention Allah, or bomb, or President (among countless others), and you can bet your ass someone will be looking at the transcript tomorrow.Quote:
Originally posted here by 4MidgetHitmen
I remember when they first unveiled carnivore (bomb) and said that it could also (Allah) look for keywords (Hezbolah) in an email or on a mesage (assination) board and flag (militia) them for the Suit and Tie Guys back (2nd Amendment) in DC... You're right it is an interseting read...:D
I remember right after Sep 11th, about a month or so after, my girlfriend was flying out to Washington state to see her dad, and she emailed him about it, the subject line was "Final flight schedule"(we werent sure when she was lying out), and she got a very odd message from Hotmail saying that the message has not been sent yet, and is under review.
The NSA monitors everything.
EDIT: The 4th Amendment "guarantees" us protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Therefore I think this whole baloney is unconstitutional.
We've got Carnivore for our email, Echelon for everything else, and new lax wire tap laws. It seems like any more privacy is a myth. I wasn't aware hotmail even gave a notice about questionable emails, I would have figured they would just pass it on or drop the message, that way it wouldnt arrouse suspicions? Another interesting device for anyone to check out is called the NSA Big Ears, or at least thats the name I heard the unit refered to, I believe its a high-powered accoustic bug that can listen through walls.
It seems that privacy is just a thing of the past , a word in a dictonairy for our children to look up to know what it means (or ment).
Sometimes I see movies where people walk around with aluminum headgear ...sounds not too crazy anymore ;)
The movie "Enemy of the state" is a good "example" of how our privacy is just a mist , a dream in wich we leave.
I'll just stop now don't wanna sound too depressed cuzz I'm not ... I'm more mad than depressed .
anyway,
see y'all
Cemetric
This carnivore is not only active in internet software but it also "scans" telephone calls and SMS messages.....
BIG brother is watching you!
Some time back, a list of al the word's that Carnivore responds to was posted here...
Me and my friend did a little exsperiment with hotmail, we posted the entire list in mail'sa nd subject adn tryd to send it.....It never got there.....not once...
We aslo tryed by changing some of the word's and stuff....still no luck.....
two day's later, both mine and my friend's account was shut down without notice... Oh well...
So much for Privacy...
Quote:
Originally posted here by Mahakaal
Though this is what Carnivore does, but it has been in effect for quite some time now. Every international call that you make is monitored for keywords like Midget mentioned. Mention Allah, or bomb, or President (among countless others), and you can bet your ass someone will be looking at the transcript tomorrow.
you are confusing Carnivore (email and network based interception device) with Echelon (telecommunications/voice interception device).
I have read a couple of detailed studies on what Echelon can really do, and it does NOT review ALL international phone calls or even some of them looking for certian words within a conversation. The technology required to listen to trillions of words passed in these communications doesn't exist yet. What they CAN do though is listen for specific voice patterns in all of that communication, but mostly only on certian segments where they expect these communications to take place. I'll see if I can find the most recent EU study of Echelon and it's capabilities. France as a very similar program in place and was the reason the study of Echelon and it's capabilities was undertaken.
El Diablo
Come on guys, how bad can it get. If like Midget I want to spoof something like a terrorist plan. OK my brothers of Islam tom******* Edited Out By The NSA ******* then we will *******Edited out by the NSA ********** Ha Ha Ha Ha this will teach the Capitalist pigs that ********** Edited out by the NSA *********** is the ********* Edited Out By The NSA *********
I mean, don't you think you are just being paranoid?
Privacy is and always has been a thing of the past. As long as people have exsisted curiosity has tempted people to eavesdrop, sneak, steal and spy. It's just now the spying and eavesdropping is done on a scale that no single person could possibly concieve. It doesn't matter if Carnivore is unconstitutional because the NSA will use it anyways, just in secret. Normal people like to believe that thier computer is secure and private but in reality there is no way to secure your system 100%. Just like people like to believe that the person they voted for isn't corrupt. Nothing can ever stop the government from thrusting thier noses into your business whether they do it legally with a warrant or illegally with Carnivore. And Carnivore is not just limited to Americans. I, a proud Canadian, has had emails blocked simply because the message was bounced off an American server. There is only one place where your information is safe: your head. If your need to transmit information and keep it safe work out a one-time-use cyrpto system with your reciever. They're easy to work out and they are 99% secure. Pick out Bingo balls and swap numbers for letters. Simple and effective. Crypto is the only defense against your own government. Ahhh but if you use any sort of strong crypto you are instantly pegged as a suspect. You can't escape. They are in your house, listening to your phone, reading your mail and basically raping any personal privacy that was left in this world. They've been doing it for centuries and will continue until the end of time.
--Hack of the Year--
Someone has found a way to prevent Carnivore from getting into your e-mails! It's simple and effective and can be done on any computer in 3 easy steps:
1. Grasp the phone (or cable) line carrying your internet connection firmly with both hands.
2. Pull until the something breaks.
3. Use paper and a pen for your communication you lazy bugger!
--------------------------
I have a friend who once decided to see if Echelon really existed by answering every phone call, instead of 'Hello', but with four keywords: "Bomb, presidentm assasinate, kill." It took two years, but finally CSIS (Canadian Security & Intelligence Service) finally came knocking at his door asking him to stop because it cost them too much money to constantly record and listen to his phone calls. So yes, certain keywords are picked up, but I think it is a random picking of phone calls, rather than every phone call made everywhere. But our telephone calls are monitred for words like this.
Gasp.....well, It's not like we havn't been watched before....btw....wot's the use of Carnivore when the info they get is Crypted?.....Pgp or maby even a private app...the NSA can't crack something they havn't seen before....
Example.....If I use a multiple Cipher method...using simple thing's like XOR and such, the NSA will run it through their cracker....and they will get nothing.....why? because they don't know the order it was done in...or how it was done...let alone..WHAT was done...so their garbage filter's will simple scrap the first correct answer and then their on dry land...
Oh well...what do I know...I'm just a farmer compared to the NSA.... :D
- Noia
Oh....Just a quick note...My Phone line is tapped....I know it coz The Attenuation of the phone is absolutly crap...and every time we call for the phone ppl to come check the line...every thing work's fine....rather anoying...but hey....I'm just wondering who's listening..... :D
- Noia
Oh that is just too funny. My sides hurt from laughing!Quote:
Originally posted here by Striek
I have a friend who once decided to see if Echelon really existed by answering every phone call, instead of 'Hello', but with four keywords: "Bomb, presidentm assasinate, kill." It took two years, but finally CSIS (Canadian Security & Intelligence Service) finally came knocking at his door asking him to stop because it cost them too much money to constantly record and listen to his phone calls. So yes, certain keywords are picked up, but I think it is a random picking of phone calls, rather than every phone call made everywhere. But our telephone calls are monitred for words like this.
Take note MI5/6 i'll be showing on your radar screens. I think i'm going to HAVE to give this a go.
/me continues to chuckle
I once interviewed an FBI agent about carnivore. The people at the FBI are really eerie. Far too happy to talk about it. The goverment contradict themselves a lot about the issue when asking about different technology. They got up tight when i started asking about the conflicting stories...makes me wonder...
Everyone grab some tin foil and make hats out of them before the sattilights hover over you and read your mind. J/K but remember 1984? It doesn't seem so sci-fi nowdays :(
I think its seriosly sad when our U.S. president pushes protestors into lines which are called "freedom of speach zones" and the protestors are told that if they protest outside of the lines the will be investigated for terrorism, children are being implanted with tracking devices, and sattilights hover over your every move.
Some peaple say that the if there were less privacy and more security then more peaple would be alive today. Well I say that if the "POLITICALLY CORRECT" would relax more then maybe peaple would have more respect for authority figures..... I mean seriosly, If you walk into a store and you are treated like a criminal then wouldn't it be possable if not normal that all these cameras, locks, identifactions, restrictions make you feel.... or possably even become a criminal? When you walk into a inner city area there are cameras, gaurds, metal detectors, weird roomates :cool: ...... the only differrence between everyday life and jail is that there are no cages.
Children being implanted with tracking devices? :eek: Isn't this unconstitutional? I have an idea then... every time a child is implanted with a tracking bug, let's force the parents to have it, too. Somehow I don't think it would be so popular anymore...
But it is "for the children."There has been so damn much un-constitutional legislation passed in the name of the children as to be sickening. We have Gun Free School zones in the name of the children... They sure helped at Colmbine didn't they? And most recently they really helped the kid who was shot by the Serial Sniper huh? We have legislation that allows for children to be taken from a home on an anonymous word. But hey... As long as children are safe it is ok to trample the Rights of of their parents and their friends... The last refuge of a despot is in the children... Just look at the closing days of WW II and Hitler... And so much more... Why not Chip our kids just like we do our pets??? End of sarcasm :D
Quote:
Originally posted here by Mahakaal
Though this is what Carnivore does, but it has been in effect for quite some time now. Every international call that you make is monitored for keywords like Midget mentioned. Mention Allah, or bomb, or President (among countless others), and you can bet your ass someone will be looking at the transcript tomorrow.
.
i live in south texas close to the border of mexico and i am of hispanic desent.
what if you make a call to mexico like this "hey wazzup, did you hear about the presidential election. phew mijito(son).....mijo(son) just dropped a bomb(farted). we just finished eating frijoles(beans). ALLAH VERGA (HOLY **** is a nice way to translate that one) the kitchen is on fire!!!
Well Man you are a lot closer to the system then I am... It is housed at Fort Jucia(SP) (WAH-CHEW-KA) and for your post I am sure they picked you up:D
(opinion)eschalon conivore same results
Heres a nice link you may like to investigate on Echelon (carnivore)
http://www.europarl.eu.int/committees/echelon_home.htm
Krang
Information gathering and analyst has been and will always be one of the most important part of any power group activities. This has been going on ever since Ugh the cave man followed a rival tribe’s hunter to find a better food source.
The problems starts when governments start talking about the civic need to sacrifice individual privacy to ensure national security, this normally means that the state is sliding towards a police state. In most cases you can quite simply replace privacy with freedom and you end up with states like Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia etc. Already today in the democratic world you can be investigate for many different reasons, the wrong combination of words in you private mail, which books you take out from the library, where you decide to spend your holidays and now once again for your religious beliefs. How much longer till 1984.
Ok the above is a bit alarmist. It should also be said that echelon, carnivore etc have no real effect on most people’s lives. They are useful tools in the fight against crime and terrorism. The major points to consider in my opinion, when discussing such systems are the following.
1 They are relatively new systems as such they will only become more efficient as technology advances.
2 They gather the information dynamically in that they respond to key words, voice patterns etc.
3 Who controls them and to what use is the information gathered put to?
4 They are contrary to some of the most basic human rights, the freedom of expression and the right to privacy.
5 What are their possible effects on people’s lives, either in their present form or in their future versions?
6 What might de done to insure that they are used in ways that best serve the people they are meant to protect and not just the political power of the day.
I am personally against the indiscriminate use of such systems but also that if something is possible it will be done.
Hmm, as an old hat anarchist in the term of information transmission I hate carnivore. But, as that same old hat anarchist I believe that information transmission is public domain. Where does one get the impression that open data transmitted via thousands of privately owned computers is even remotely.... private? WTF: or think of your cordless phones, wireless internet connections, cell phones, wireless headsets, DSL connections etc. It's not private, and never was.
I believe carnivore is wrong, but information transmitted via receptable means is open and free unless YOU make a provision to protect it. Even then it's being transmitted via mechanism that allows for monitoring. Where is the privacy? It's a fallacy. That's a bit of a twist isn't it? Hell my connection to AO right now could be riding over microwave or satellite somewhere. Open and free for anyone to dismantle.
Where Carnivore is wrong, is the government forced probes to be placed INSIDE private organizations for FBI access without control or oversight by the company being probed. Not cool. I don't want to live in a country run by criminals but I don't want a country owned and manipulated by the police either, so carnivore is a bad implementation.