I would have to say that I find Moby Duck's arguments to be very clear, well thought out, and while some minor statements may be taken as inflammatory they are probably correct. I would be happier if Bush would just come out and say it.

Saddam is a brutal dictator, no one seems to argue this point.

Iraq is in a key location to controlling and influencing the majority of the Arab world.

Iraqi oil, contrary to popular belief, is not that important to American strategic interests since we import most of our oil from Canada, Central and South America. It is far more important to a few of our "allies" (like Germany and France but no one questions their motivations in opposing the war)

Someone (in another rant thread) mentioned the US specifically warning Iraq not to burn their oil fields like they did in Kuwait. However the damage in Kuwait was considered a ecological disaster not an economical one. Seems like Greenpeace, The Sierra Club, and <insert favorite environmental group here>, should have praised that warning.

I find it particularly interesting that while the people who are going over to Iraq as "human Shields" are legally traitors no one in the judiciary or the government has even hinted they should be prosecuted or even persecuted for their treason. I am certain that an Iraqi defector perceived as lending aid to America would not find this attitude reciprocated.

I also must admit that it upsets me when people throw the number of Iraqi's who have died because of the embargoes. First there are no reputable statistics. Second medical and food were never embargoed. American aid to Iraq from private citizens is equivalent or higher than the other Islamic nations surrounding it (and this aid is both considerable and mostly generated from middle class families). These statistics are well documented through numerous reputable sources. The United Nations has tried to send health workers but have been refused due to their unacceptable requirements that the workers be used where ever the need was (like with the Kurds) and not just where ever Saddam wanted them. I believe that Moby was right on target when he put the blame where it really lies (not a popular thing to do these days where everyone but the criminal is to blame) with Saddam who has constantly proven willing to sacrifice the lives of his people for political gain (or just to test weapons and lethality of chemical and biological agents).

By constrast I found most of the counter arguments made my Smirc and others earlier in this thread to be little more than snide name calling or unveiled ridicule with little or no content to back it up. It is as if saying "you're stupid" is an argument or "go back to school" shows your superiority and therefore allieviates you from the need to give a coherent response.

There was one thing that Moby Duck was totally wrong about. I hesitate to mention it because it will give those of you who love knee jerk responses an excuse to ignore all of his comments since he was proven wrong on one. However, and I have proof to back this up, he said Smirc was from the UK but the flag is Australian. I am certain no one has ever made so egregious a mistake before when typing into a chat room, e-mail, or message board like this. I no I nvr mak mstakes miself.