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April 13th, 2004, 08:11 PM
#21
RoadClosed: the iraqi army mass deserting and the security forces fighting on the side of the insergants may be good signs of a mass upriseing.
Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?
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April 13th, 2004, 08:34 PM
#22
That would be an indicator, can you show me this mass disertion? Can't find it.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
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April 13th, 2004, 10:00 PM
#23
Originally posted here by bballad
RoadClosed: the iraqi army mass deserting and the security forces fighting on the side of the insergants may be good signs of a mass upriseing.
That is a gross exageration. I assume you are referencing the 900 or so soldiers in the new Iraqi army that refused to enter Fallujah? They did not desert, although they may soon be booted from the Army by the Provisional Authority. There are currently two batallions of Iraqi Civil Defense working with the Marines in and around Fallujah.
Are the uprisings in the three or four cities last week alarming? Yes. Does it have the potential to grow into a larger uprising? Yes. Does it, at this point in time, constitute a mass uprising? Hardly. Does last week approach Vietnam? Excuse my language, but you have to be (*#%(*%(& kidding me!! Iraq isn't even a fart in the wind compared to Vietnam....Pull your nose out of Ted Kennedy's ass for a moment and you might get a clearer picture.
I certainly think things could be run and done better, but I also think that the efforts of certain politicians to turn the suffering of both American Soldiers and the Iraqi people into some kind of political hay is beyond sickening.
There is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect...There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the 'why'. 'Why' is what separates us from them, you from me. 'Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.
(Merovingian - Matrix Reloaded)
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April 14th, 2004, 03:15 PM
#24
nebulus200: no one said anything about vietnam...you brought that up.
look we have the police we trained turning there guns on our troops, we hae iraqi batalians that are not ready for combat yet (according to their Vinnell trainer ...the guys who traind the south koreans) with a 20% AWOL and a 25% leave rate...so those two divisins we have are realy one with a bunch of guys running off with the equpment. The first bitallion (the first group traind who should be fighting now.) has allready replaced their CO.
here is a wonderfull artical on the state of the iraqu regaments form david Hackworth...the man responsable for our small unit army http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/c...87938486248376
Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?
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April 14th, 2004, 05:59 PM
#25
See the thread starter's first post regarding Vietnam...
My answer about Vietnam was directed towards that comment. As for how I said it, it was Mr. Kennedy who bloviated on that topic on the Senate floor. Personally, my blood is still boiling at his gross exagerations and his attempts to make political points out of the suffering of American troops, American Civilians, the Iraqi people, and the citizens/soldiers of every other country that is currently involved in Iraq, I frankly expect more grace out of a Senator...
As far as the Iraqi units go, I do agree that they have been rushed through training and do agree that in some cases have been poorly equipped (although it is my understanding that this part is becoming less and less of an issue). The US has been very rushed in trying to standup Iraq to take care of its own security and the effects of the rushing to deploy Iraqi units are very evident; however, my only point on the topic was that the majority of Iraqi policemen, civil defense, and even Army soldiers are doing their jobs, are risking their lives daily, and are trying to make their country a better, more stable, and secure place to live. IMHO, the characterizations of a unit refusing to deploy as 'mass defections' are grossly exaggerated by some in the US and around the world that, for some reason, take perverse glee and great joy in watching the effort in Iraq fail.
There is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect...There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the 'why'. 'Why' is what separates us from them, you from me. 'Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.
(Merovingian - Matrix Reloaded)
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April 14th, 2004, 06:52 PM
#26
45% of the units have deserted if that is not a mass defection what is?
Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?
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April 14th, 2004, 08:00 PM
#27
Originally posted here by bballad
45% of the units have deserted if that is not a mass defection what is?
Sources please, sources...
I find that number very difficult to believe...
There is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect...There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the 'why'. 'Why' is what separates us from them, you from me. 'Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.
(Merovingian - Matrix Reloaded)
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April 14th, 2004, 09:54 PM
#28
I gave you sources David Hackworth Colonel Us army retired. He was quoteing a Vinnell rep, the Mercs (or contractors if you prefer) in charge of training the iraqi army. 25% on leave, 20% AWOL. In one day last month 139 NCO's quit the army...this is a very bad sign.
Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?
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April 14th, 2004, 10:11 PM
#29
As far as the Iraqi units go, I do agree that they have been rushed through training and do agree that in some cases have been poorly equipped
Hell, Bush went on tv to say that whatever the military needs, he will make sure they get. Today I read an article on the daily news about a Leutenant that is trying to gather vests for the troops, saying there aren't enough and asking any citizen to donate their vests if they have one...what is going on here??
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April 14th, 2004, 10:27 PM
#30
I was hoping you had more than one. Regardless, I will be looking around to see if I can't find some collaborating information. I did find some interesting web sites in the meantime, but not mention of the Iraqi units (I have heard it elsewhere, just looking for some public places that have similar information).
http://www.cjtf7.com/
http://www.iraqcoalition.org/
As you should with anything, take it with a grain of salt and consider the source...regardless, was kinda interesting too look through...
/nebulus
There is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect...There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the 'why'. 'Why' is what separates us from them, you from me. 'Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.
(Merovingian - Matrix Reloaded)
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