Hi,


I think the main point I was making was that I was tired of people dissing Microsoft. It's old is what I am saying. I also think my argument about network economics stands. While you can't achieve security through obscurity, security because of obscurity does happen. It is a mirage. It's not real. And MS security is as someone else pointed out quite good, just underutilised.


Should computers be secure out of the box? Well, I think part of the problem is thinking of computers as white goods. They aren't and probably won't be for quite a while. There will come a point when the number of services that the Joe Sixpacks and their Kiddies require from a computer reach a 'level' and the requirement to install additional software will tend towards zero. At that point, Microsoft will have established the 'white goods' niche that it has probably always being aiming at.


A short time after the security of these machines will mature and Windows (or whatever they call it by that stage) will be as secure as it can be. It will not be wholly secure, anymore than a washing machine is always guaranteed to work, but it will have reached an acceptable level of security and usability that will satisfy the ordinary user.


The risks currently associated with these machines will then transfer to specialist machines, the ones that still offer openess and flexibility in the way they can be used. At that point, look out *nix inter alii.


The risks will also transfer to new technologies especially in the communications arena. I foresee the return of the uberphreaker. I virtually swear it.


T R Enzenyu