nihil is somewhat right in his assumption to what im asking. i realize now that 8char/int passwords are somewhat simple, i havent worried about security and such (password-wise) since like 1995 (lol?). but i know that people are capable of cracking up to 24 especially with the computers we have now, and BROADBAND which is available everywhere now. back then we had 56k and if you were lucky you had ISDN at home etc etc, or if you were in college a T1 i presume. my linux crashed along with my power supply and im trying to figure out why the drive wont work right, i think i have a power supply problem with the new one i got even though its a tiny bit better. things are just driving me crazy. and its not even script kiddies im worried about, its people who actually know something and develope the tools for the skiddies. not all of them are good and release them just for malicious reasons. i know, i use to be one years ago. but there has to be an easier way to make a good password without memorizing 24 length passwords (and ive read that shadowed passwords are not even secure). thats why im asking crypto nerds if there is an easy way to have a shorter password and have it secure for the general population (not feds) and keep it uncrackable. most remember the old wwwboard exploit....where you can get all accounts and just dictionary crack it with JOHN and crack an account easy. thats what i want to avoid.