Your Views On Hacking People

First, to start off, I want to apologise to steve....I was a little pissy with the response of the last thread related to this subject and blasted you. Hope you forgive me for that. I think that what you were trying to tell me is that maybe if I had approached the subject in a different way, I wouldn't have looked like a turd.

With that said, I feel that I must agree with steve and many others here on the subject of hacking...If you don't own it, don't hack it. There's also hacking for curiosity's sake. IMHO as long as a penetration of a system does not actually occur, and your acts do not have an adverse effect on the system you are playing with (such as a DoS), and no data has been compromised, I do not see any harm done. It's still best to do it in a controled lab setting. As for hacking with malicious intentions, that's just plain wrong.

I would suggest that anyone interested in learning the trade of the blackhat invest some money into some old computer parts and build a network for that purpose. That way you can learn without breaking the law. This test network could also be used for other things, such as MCSE ot other certification scenario duplication. Expec to spend between $1000-$5000, depending on how elaborate your setup is. Here's what I currently use in my test network:

A Pentium 200 MMX PC running SCO OpenServer UNIX 5
A Pentium 200 MMX PC running RedHat Linux 7
A Pentum III 800 running Susie Linux 9
A Dual Processor Pentum III 933 Runnung Win2K Advanced Server
An AMD Athlon running WinXP Pro
2 Ring Tone Generators (for simulating dial up connections)
A hardware firewall/router with 10/100 4-port switch
A 10/100 Router
An 8 port 10/100 switch

A lot of what I use was scraped together from junk that found dumpster diving (it's amazing what people throw away. I actually spent about $2700.00. You can save money by using evaluation versions of the OSes, and keeping the PCs at the minimum requirement for the OS.

With my setup, I can simulate almost any kind of attack on any OS I have from any other OS I have. I can also change the Application software or services around as I see fit, which provides an almost endless amount of possibilities.

As for learning how, Here are some links. Some are worth little more than entertainment, but some have some useful information, and some are tools to use.

http://www.whois.com - Whois Database
http://www.2600.com - The Hacker Quarterly
http://www.phrack.org -
http://69.65.6.2/~rimba/euyulio/downloads/euyulio.php
http://andrew.triumf.ca/ports/other.html - Internet Ports, Services, & Trojans
http://www.attrition.org - General Info and Tools
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~rakerman/port-table.html -TCP Ports
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~rakerman/...ort-table.html -Trojan TCP Ports
http://www.commodon.com/threat/threat-allports.htm - Threats to your security
http://www.dart.com/powertcp/winsock_included.asp - TCP Utils for Windows
http://www.defcon.org - The World's Largest Hacking Convention
http://www.elite-hacker.org - Mostly script kiddie stuff
http://www.hackersbook.com - Home of the Hacker's Black Book
http://www.astalavista.com - Underground Search Engine
http://www.hackerslegion.com
http://www.hackingexposed.com - Great info on exploits
http://hoaxinfo.com - Entertainment
http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers - The Official TCP Port Database
http://www.network-intelligence.com - Huge Exploit Database
http://neworder.box.sk - Security Portal Site
http://piratos.de.nr - Hacking Tools
http://www.piratos.at - Mirror of above
http://www.portsdb.org - Port Database
http://search.cert.org
http://www.stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html - Richard Stallman's On Hacking
http://www.subseven.ws - Official Site for SubSeven
http://www.suhs.nu - General Hacking (Script Kiddie stuff)
http://www.tburke.net/info/ntldr/ntl...king_guide.htm - How to hack NTLDR

I came here purely for the interesting discussions. I have visited this site for a long time, but I never got around to becoming a member until a few months ago.

I am proud to call myself a hacker. I have never broken the law, well, not too many laws anyways. And I enjoy taking things apart and figuring out how they work.


BTW: Bill Gates is not a hacker, he never was. He's a thief, and a software whore.


EDIT: 51?????????????, sorry I cannot remeber your handle (Bong hits), but I personally do not see him as a hacker. But you do have a nice network from your description :) .

Actually, Bill was a hacker (he wrote programs). What he was not is a "cracker", which is what popular society commonly refers to as "hacker".

I can't remember my handle half the time either, D0pp139an93r! Is there any way to change your handle without starting a new account? (I guess it really doesn't matter much since I'm a noob)

In any event, Bill still sux and so does M$. :D

Just think of Windows as a virus :p that is propigated by the user's choice. It infects the system (installation), eats resources, causes compatability issues (with your wallet), contains infinate bugs, and finally delivers its payload (thin wallet, headaches, total reliance on a GUI, and dependance on M$ for patches to their shoddy code). They've gotten better after Win2K, but still...

I do not call myself as hacker, as that is a title that one cannot give themselves just becase they feel like it. I do however find a great interest in programming and network/computer security. It isn't just a matter of learning it, but also a matter of simply being curious. For me, there is a certain excitement by learning how someone did what, and how it can be improved upon.

I hack for two things. Curiosity and improvement. Curiosity, unlike what many believe, does not entail damage or destruction. I merely seek to expand my knowledge first hand rather than through text documents, and be able to apply what I have learned to the means of improving the internet, one network at a time.

When I circumvent a network, I keep a firm documentation of what I saw, what needs to be fixed, and the holes I find along the way. This documentation is either sent off to the admin via a forge smtp through a proxy, or I take care of the security personally, preform all the fixes, and then notify the admins. Each situation calls for something a bit different, and how I think the admin will react decides how I will handle the situation. This does NOT (all the scripties listening?) entail DoSing the hell out of the network because the admin is a *****.

As I said before, I do not call myself a hacker, but I do recognize that I have grey hat tendencies. "Using curiosity to gain firsthand knowledge so that the knowledge can be applied to improve the internet security."

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In any event, Bill still sux and so does M$.

Just think of Windows as a virus that is propigated by the user's choice. It infects the system (installation), eats resources, causes compatability issues (with your wallet), contains infinate bugs, and finally delivers its payload (thin wallet, headaches, total reliance on a GUI, and dependance on M$ for patches to their shoddy code). They've gotten better after Win2K, but still...

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im sick and tired of people just going off and blasting microsoft (no pun intended ;) ). tell me, without microsoft, do you really think that the PC, and computers in general would be as mainstream as they are today? Before the user friendly GUI of Win 9x many people were tottally and completely computer illiterate. While i admit *nix has less bugs and security holes than Windows, it helps the less computer savvy people of the world become comfortable with the PC. And also, i'd be willing to bet that you wouldnt be on this webpage today if it wasnt for windows. Dont take it for granted...


slick

well everyone would be trained to use *nix instead of DOS and that way we'd all learn *nix :). If windows did now become most generally used OS, I'm sure we'd all be able to use Macs or *nix :D

cheers

I agree with slick. The majority of MS bashing always comes down to one of three things, to each I will address kindly:

1. Bill stole it all

Bill is a coder, period. Read the history of his life and how he got to where he is now. Along the way he did borrow ideas, he did have an eye for what people liked, and he know how to take an existing idea and improve upon it. Bill in my eyes is an admirable hacker. So the base of people hating Bill is that he can take existing ideas and make them better, on a different time frame than others. That's called good buisness, knowing what people want, and having the guts to stand up against the onslaught of nix user flames.

2. It's insecure (by default)

Yes, Windows is partially insecure by default. That however is very easily remedied. Install a firewall, or turn off the built in firewall in XP and then install one. Do NOT worry about a constantly running virus scanner. Instead, anytime you download something questionable, before running it go to http://housecall.antivirus.com
That is an online virus scanner which runs off of activeX, and is up to date on the minute. I've used that for 4 years, and have never once caught a virus. Find and download spybot - search and destroy, and run it for updates once a day and scan your computer with it once a day for spyware.

Which brings me to my point. Windows can be just as secure as a Sun Solaris or OpenBSD box. The admin makes the OS, the OS does not make the admin. A good admin can secure it to be impenetrable, regardless of the tools at hand. I am sure a lot of you will say "but it isn't default! and a typical user won't know how to secure that!". So you want them to what? Switch to linux? If you feel a typical user doesn't understand enough to secure themselves on windows, what makes you think they will begin to comprehend linux? It is much easier to teach them an OS they already know, than to teach them something they don't care about.

3. ME sucked

Yes. I want to hug anyone who has ever come in contact with ME. ME was literally a mistake, a misrelease, and thus caused havok amoungst windows users. However, windows 2k pro is amazingly stable. XP Pro is even more stable, with ever better RAM and multi thread handling. If you hate windows and have not used it since ME, it may be time to give it a 2nd chance. Give Windows as much and as fair of a chance as you give *nix (*BSD), and you will find that every single OS preforms equally based upon your knowledge.


This has been an interesting thread, but I hope we can all smile and simply read, learning something, rather than bickering and arguing over who killed who.. :)

my gf is still using ME :D ROFL. I'm not gonna let you hug her though ;). Billy is a hacker (Have it be Computer Hacking wise or Just a master of his trade). When I call Bill Gates a hacker, in now way do I refer to him as an evil person with the intention of crashing a box. I dont hate the guy, i admire his abilities in business and in the computer world.

Indeed this has been an excellent thread to learn something and glad it hasn't turned into a flame war :D

P.S. I forgot to mention: Windows is also a target of MOST malware because of its wide use.

i have to agree with pooh sun tzu, windows is not half as bad as most people seem to claim, yea its got its problems but so has linux. I have to admit when i first installed XP i didn`t like it at all purely because the interface reminded me of ME. I surpose i even tried to find problems with it but so far it has proved faster and more stable then any other version of windows so far. So people should just take the chance to explore the new OS before the diss it.
As for bill gates stealing other peoples ideas, he may not of been the most ethical of people but thats just what you call good buisness. If you dont agree look where he is now!
Back to the original intention of this post, i`ve been lurking around AO for about 3 years, its changed a hell of a lot since i first seen it. I originally came here to learn more about computers, security in perticular. I dont post that often, only when i feel the need. But even still i`ve learnt a hell of a lot from this site.

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Originally posted here by n00bie
The purpose of this thread is for all Antionline members of all areas to come together and explain what they get up to, how they came across this site and what their positions are ect:
BlackHat Hacker/WhiteHat Hacker/ScriptKiddie/Admin/Computer Security Consaltant,and if ur a WhiteHat Hacker or ScriptKiddie or BlackHat Hacker or ur defacing websites and you think ur doing a good thing.

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None of the above. I do what I want, when I want, and just for the hell of it all. Anyone who use labels like "hacker" esspecially those who use it as a form of status or a way to feel belonging is not only a idiot but also a very weak person. Im NOT sorry if I offend anyone but admit it... most of you who use the word on yourselves only use it because it sounds cool to you and because you think that other peaple who call themselves that are cool... so you use it so you'll look hahaha "smart" or so some of that coolness will somehow rub off on you.

LOL come on, man. If someone were going to admit to doing illegal activities right here and right now do you really think they'd brag for some special reason other than the fact that they know they are lame yet they still want to look cool... And if they actually took what they have done seriously do you think they would even bother braging in the first place? Hell no... this is just another excuse for some dummy to try and look cool. The so called hacking thing is nothing more than a big joke or a pissing contest at best.

And you'll hear about curiousity, exploration, & all that jazz. Haha... Yeah I guess thats why close to 96% of these guys tag they're name onto everything they can get their hands on... whether it be a defaced site, source comments, & stuff. :rolleyes: