Get a load of this: (national ID card)

Somehow I came across this link:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/t...2/id-cards.htm

which talks about the upcoming possibilities towards a national ID card.

My opinion on this is that there are way too many vulnerabilities in the market for them to try to put everyone 'under one umbrella'. Just imagine, everything that makes you 'you' stored in *one* database. Doesn't that make it a prime target for just about every kind of attack from brute-forcing, buffer overflows, and DDoS? Not even that, I just don't like the whole 'one card' theory. Invasion of privacy is at stake (I think) with a bunch of people up on the hill trying to get it passed under the guise of the 'Sept. 11 attacks'.

Moral of the story: I don't agree with it, I won't support it, and I'll tell anyone who asks...

Opinions?

Man thats scarry. . . . Reminds me of the book 1984. . . .

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Big Brother is watching you! ! ! !

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Here..here...

That's a dumb idea if I ever did hear one.

Functionally, how is this going to be any different than my S.S. card or passport?
Both are "national id cards" in nature, albeit that they grant me specific priviledges.
One being the right to work and pay taxes:) and the other to travel beyond our borders.

Hmm,

I think we've discussed a lot of this before on this forum.
In principle it sounds like a good idea, but a lot of us know how vulnerable certain databases are to external attack (and we are not talking about buffer overflows/brute force attacks here). Speaking from a European perspective, some parts of Europe have a national ID card, and some don't. For example, public opinion here in the UK is strongly opposed to a national ID card, quite rightly IMHO.

If you don’t like this, why don’t you do something about it.

Follow the link below to find your Representative and her/his email address:

http://www.house.gov/writerep/


Topic: Federal Standardized Drivers License.

I do not want my Driver License to be , in any way shape or form, a Federal I.D.

I say no to any form of Federal I.D.

I think its a great idea

Or tell them what you want to see happen.

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Originally posted by Vorlin
Somehow I came across this link:
Invasion of privacy is at stake (I think) with a bunch of people up on the hill trying to get it passed under the guise of the 'Sept. 11 attacks'.

Moral of the story: I don't agree with it, I won't support it, and I'll tell anyone who asks...
Opinions?

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You bet privacy is at stake! It appears whatever The US Government (and corprate America) doesn't agree with or have had trouble controlling in the past will get a "terrorist" label to win the hearts of the people and than they can do whatever they damn well please. What about Microsofts' claim that WareZ is how terrorists finance their activites? Warez is free! If terrorists financed themselves with a free resource such as WareZ there would be a lot less terrorism!

Anyway, I'm going slightly off topic.


IMHO the national ID card is a simple way of classifying people as if they were un sent memo's! You go in that pigeon hole, you'll go over there....and so on and so on....That's just scratching the tip of the iceberg though. You can find a more detailed insight into why the NID card is an introduction into high tech slavery HERE...

Well, instead of using passport, SS# and driver's license, to use one ID sounds good, but hey, I don't want credit cards and paychecks mix in the enchilada!!!!

For those that thought it was ok to volunteer all that 'demographic' information on the census, a national ID card probably doesn't sound all that bad. The fact is, the Constitution ONLY calls for an ENUMERATION of the people. Count noses, count legs and divide by two, but no other information is required. The government has absolutely no right to my personal information. I have (unfortunately) volunteered the same because of the work I have done. That doesn't mean I want them to have instant access from a card reader in a 7-11 or a supermarket or a liquor store. If the card becomes the defacto ID for E-transactions, your entire purchase history becomes more data in a database. With tera-byte (sp?) storage available, and search engines powerful and fuzzy, all that is necessary is a quick query and voila, the Government or the "wired bad guys" (can't quite figure who would be worse) would have a complete dump of who, where, and what you are and do.

National ID cards or federalized "state" drivers licenses are counter to liberty. If you believe, as I do, that this is true, then it behooves us all to flood our congressmen with email, mail, faxes, and phone calls to that effect.

Stay alert,
Pete

Hey, why all that panic?

Here in Belgium we all (all people > 12 year) have an Identity Card
On the card is a number called 'Rijksregisternummer' or 'Stateregistrynumber' with this numbe they can track you down: age, gender, location, social status, birth date, birth place, parents names, criminal status.

No 1 here does have complains against this... is this a privacy violation... perhaps.
My dad works as a computer analyst at the company that runs the mainframes holding the archive with everyone's info and yes there are some risks about privacy, but there are also many benefits.

About security: they use their own telecommunicationlines to communicate (encrypted) between governement, police, ministry of defense and the mainframes. So no1 can snif on those lines except when they dig a hole in the ground, search for the cable and pretend to be a reciever but this is not an easy task to do.

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Originally posted by VictorKaum
Hey, why all that panic?

Here in Belgium we all (all people > 12 year) have an Identity Card
On the card is a number called 'Rijksregisternummer' or 'Stateregistrynumber' with this numbe they can track you down: age, gender, location, social status, birth date, birth place, parents names, criminal status.

No 1 here does have complains against this... is this a privacy violation... perhaps.

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No one complains until the government decides to use the data to
persecute you, but by then, they already have all power in their
hands.
Europeans should fear this more than Brits or Americans do.
After all the holocaust was perpetrated in Europe.
:cool:

federalizing anything is an infringement on states rights. By its very nature, its fair to some and unfair to others.

the mood of this country up until sept 11, was a more decentralized government. with things like each state minting its own coins and more decisions made at the local level.

sept 11 is being used by the power mongers to take control. This country does not want or need control to prosper. control has the opposite effect on an independent people.

The "id" card they proposed is to include data from "unspecified" government and law enforcement departments. these departments are buying un-verified information from data miners:

"Through the mining of public records and the purchase of credit reporting data, private sector companies are amassing troves of personal information on citizens for the government," said EPIC attorney Chris Hoofnagle in a statement. "Serious questions exist involving citizen access to profiles, their accuracy and the potential for misuse of personal information"

newsbytes

Oh my God its starts...

quote:
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Originally posted by niboreon

Functionally, how is this going to be any different than my S.S. card or passport?
Both are "national id cards" in nature, albeit that they grant me specific priviledges.
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Well heres the scoop....These ID cards will be "SMART" cards. Alot like your Visa or Master cards. Having basically your whole life story programmed in COBAL on a little magnetic strip.
Also I see these Cards not only having a picture for identification, but also your finger prints blood type,medical records ect...everything about you!

But it won't stop there. I don't know if any of you you have heard of the "EURO"? Its a currency sweeping the European nations. A common currency being used in order to boost the economy in western europe.Who knows how many countrys economies have failed being forced to accept this Currency.Eventually ours will fail. And our ID Cards will become more important.Seeing as how you can lose your card or it could be stolen, these cards will become outdated, bringing the "Smart Chip" for identification. At this point in time, Computer Hackers will be the terrorist because the "ONE DATA BASE" is not 100% secure. And Us being the information addicts will compromise this system. And we will be hunted down like dogs.


On this grimm note I apologize for apocolyptic theory.But we're all gonna die very soon.

Hmm, interesting topic.. I get so filled with different emotions. Ofcourse it´s bad in the sense of privacy and the risk of everything getting out of hand as Dr Toker says

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you can lose your card or it could be stolen, these cards will become outdated, bringing the "Smart Chip" for identification

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My verdict is: Over my dead body.


But
VictorKaum: Can you please name some things you/belgium has found positive with a card like this. :)

well guys, this is just the beginning of the loss of freedom.

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The government has absolutely no right to my personal information.

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But they will.... under the new laws they are trying to impose, there will be no such thing as personal information. All things will be avaible if they desire to find out. The sad part is, all this will come to pass because of september 11th. Everyone is all hyped up about terrorism and security. So anything the government tells them will help, these people will do it, no matter how comprimising it is....

nothing in this society is free. but i'd give up a little of my civil liberties to know that my family & friends are safe. got to give a little to get a little. :deal:

this is a bad idea waiting for a diasaster. So called national registrations of any kind almost always end up being used by the state against the populace. I'm a good student of history. It shows that when you keep trading a little right and a little right there, over time the effect is to disenfranchise yourself to an overbearing hierarchy.

VictorKaum, I do not agree with you at all this time. Because there is not yet any evidence of misuse does not equate to no future misuse. Europe has given civilization many positive contributions. It has also, by way of these very same means, given us two world wars.

Note - I am not bashing Europeans, but merely pointing out that several governments there have used national registration systems of various kinds to oppress their people and others.

:(

privacy or no privacy, the sept11 would have still happened because as lame as those terrorist were they knew something about encryption....


i agree with the use of a national id card since it would bring a lot of facilities to everyday life...
all you need is one number to remember ...easier.... plus if you were in france you'd know tthat with this we get whole bunch of advantages automatically ..... as students you get subvention to pay rent indepandantly or race/age/religion/ grades .... not bad hehehe ? something called almost free healthcare compared to the states .... (back to the student ex: you won't get a 3nd year hairhead medicine student poking on you knee when your troat hurts i'm sure that sounds familiar) and other things like that....


it's also true that i'd hate to have credit cards companies/spam agencies/private bussiness have acces to my personnal information, that's when the justice comes in ... make the penalties so severe that god dam it they use it just only once they are out of bussiness for good .... that should get the message loud and clear.

yet this could be a lot easier if the gov was serving us instead of us serving us.... let's all go out there and do some serious protesting .!!!!! frazier is coming on... gtg

Gawd....
How many rights will we give up? How far will we go to save our skin and feel secure?
I will not give up my freedom! I seem to remember someone saying........

GIVE ME FREEDOM OR GIVE ME DEATH!

Dammit! I want to be free! Looks like good ol' USof A isnt as free as we thought. Canada is looking a little better these days.Besides they got good pot there.:)

Anyone remember CueCat? That little mouse looking thing that scanned in bar codes then entered them into a database via the internet, along with your geographical and any other personal information you supplied? Kind of sucked when their database was penetrated and the cracker got thousands of users personal information.

Imagine that scenario with this database? Identity theft would sky rocket. And anyone who tells me that a government database is secure is an idiot. I've seen mirrors of the thousands of hacked .gov sites.

We shouldn't trust the government, because the government doesn't trust us. They might as well skip this whole National ID card idea, and just start tatooing us with bar codes at birth. We all know that's what they really want to do. Those bar codes would go good along with the Guardian Angel chips that they are already implanting under animal's skin to track them.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think the government has done their fair share to create my views on this.

dr, i think you mean:

"Give me Liberty or give me Death"
....Patrick Henry, 1776

anyway, that was 225 years ago. life, morals and society has changed. i still think that man, (as a whole), would trade a little freedom for more security.

btw - who's to say the the uber database doesn't already exist. i don't recall a truly succesful hack of the NSA in the last few years. someone please tell me if i am wrong here.

i agree with Dr Toker, it can lead to "smartchips". the govt already has a lot of nice new toys to help them track anyone down. yes, hackers will eventually be hunted down and persecuted. i already see some bias against hackers, and it won't help at all if a large database is made that contains all personal data about an individual. i already feel safe without them cards. to take a risk at "giving away" all my information; i don't think so! over my cold, long dead body! i'm not saying this might not be safe; i'm just saying i don't trust anything i can't see, especially if it is taking such a risk! this helps eliminate more freedom i quote, "Give me liberty, or give me death!"

This is a worrying concept, without doubt.
To have an individual able find out everything about you from one location
is simply wrong. An individual annonymity in a democratic society should (must?)
be assured. Programers will write code for these 'super info machines' that would
search them and throw up - potentially anyway - your name for whatever reason,
thereby leaving a totally innocent person liable for deeper investigation for no other
reason than a machine pointing the finger.
Hands up all those who thinks this is happening already??? :shocked:

I think Janis Joplin said it, "Freedoms just another word for nothing left to loose". From the moment we are born we are loosing "freedoms". Get that kids shots, take him to this school, fill out this form, ect.... Life is a balancing act of giving up total freedom for the things we want, a loan for a new car, boat, home, mega computer equip..... It seems that since the 11th of September the attacks on the level of personal freedoms has dramatically gone up. Every state now has a homeland defense coordinator (sp?). From a party that spouts less Gov't we are given more and more.
Being an ex service man, the Gov't has a huge file on me already. Every pimple and blemish is documented. I do not believe that the gov't is gonna be the real perps here. It'll be big business, insurance co's ect... that have the ok of the fed.
Well enough ranting here, lets check out the rest of the site. :D

Look at Social Security Numbers. It has become an identifier, but in order to implement it the govt promised that it would not become one. I'm suprised the numbers are not embedded in my arm so I can show school who I am.

here in my country (spain) we used ID sort where all are personal information is stored up .
of course am against it but you can't really do much about it but am not planning approve any law that takes liberties from us even if it helps to track terrorist because maybe you will be on the other end some day just because you don't agry with some things and they will now everything about you much better than you and i think that is and ofense to civil rights
well thats my point of view

Quote:

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Originally posted by VictorKaum
Hey, why all that panic?

Here in Belgium we all (all people > 12 year) have an Identity Card
On the card is a number called 'Rijksregisternummer' or 'Stateregistrynumber' with this numbe they can track you down: age, gender, location, social status, birth date, birth place, parents names, criminal status.

No 1 here does have complains against this... is this a privacy violation... perhaps.
My dad works as a computer analyst at the company that runs the mainframes holding the archive with everyone's info and yes there are some risks about privacy, but there are also many benefits.

About security: they use their own telecommunicationlines to communicate (encrypted) between governement, police, ministry of defense and the mainframes. So no1 can snif on those lines except when they dig a hole in the ground, search for the cable and pretend to be a reciever but this is not an easy task to do.

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Well I've mostly worked in this sort of area (IBM mainframe systems) for the last 20 years or so, and yes, there is a lot of truth in what you say. However, nothing is perfect, and there are a lot of loopholes, although normally you would require some sort of assistance from someone on the 'inside' - however this can be as simple as aquiring access to a laptop used by a support person. I'm speaking from personal experience here, as a company I was working for in the past detected some very odd database requests (just commercialy sensitive as it turned out), which we eventually managed to trace.

For all the Europeans:

Its been my observation, although ive given it no research, that the countries in Europe are acting to unit, yet maintain their national individuality at the same time. Where anyone from any nation can travel and trade unhindered in any of the other nations.

Well that’s the concept of states here (hence our name). Now the coalition wants to take power from the states and assume it themselves.

How would you react to that.