Communism you Bolshevik!

Considering this place is a hostile enviroment for me and I have a bad reputation I have decided to try work my way up to green antipoints by bringing up topical discussion.

I may not be any good at Security but I know my Arts!

Anyway I can be a little controversial with my views but it is important to not I am a nihilist thus any view I express regarding politics, religion etc. I do not support, I look from all angles of the situation, this gives me an unbiased opinion which may offend at a site like this.

Anyway the topic is Communism!

Failure or succes in light of Soviet becoming a SuperPower from almost nothing?

Evil ideology or Promising in the right hands { not Stalins ;) }

And so on, all views welcomed!

Communism is an ideal. It's also unrealistic and probably impossible on earth. Humans, at least, most of them, are motivated by power. And power defeats the idealistic equality aspects of communism.

I'll trash a coin down the drain.. I have to thank you for a interesting subject Noble Hamlet.

I have nothing bad to say about our neighbours in the east (I'm living in Finland) but communism have done lots of bad things aswell as good.

I'm speaking of my own experience:
I have been dating a woman from St Petersburg for a long time until we broke up last december. She learned me a lots of things about Russia and the former Soviet union and my travels there also showed me the true Russia.

Many people living there are suffering cause of the bad situation and many of them want to have back communism and the days who were. I do not like the idea of a sovreign state as Soviet was but I do understand their point of view. They had everything they needed during the days of communism, today a well paid (normal worker) earns 50-100 USD per month and it's aint cheap living there except for the tourists who often has a lots of money.

A apartment in St Petersburg costs about 100-500USD per month so how can a normal worker manage that on a low income (theft and crime is often the solution)? During the Soviet days they had apartments for free and food on the table except during times of war..

I have nothing more to add and it was not much about the topic stated above as about the situation of today and what I lerned while visiting Russia, I can be wrong and would happilly hear your opinions.

I've amended a popular joke that I was told... This was when I was moving back the USA from Hong Kong, and many classmates made jokes about the typical ethnocentric US person:

"Whoah, dude, are you really from China?"
"Uhm, I was in Hong Kong."
"That's like, China though, right?"
"Pretty much."
"Feh. Konichiwa, you COMMUNIST!"

I'd have to agree with Alacatraz, though.

I would love to see a serious discussion of communism,
now that the 1950s are over.
:cool:

Well in the sociological light atleast the beginning was a success. The development from a feudal country into a modern country was very swift. And in the right hands.. yeah maybe..

Not in the hands of wankers like the one(s) that designed the irrigation systems which made the lake Aral dry up. (ok shrink to 50% in the last 30 years)

I think Alcatraz' post about sums it up - communism expects every member of society to cooperate fully - if one does not, the ideology falls like a house of cards - to bad though, some of Marx' ideas and views are truly gems.

Marx may have had good ideas on healthcare etc. but where in the world has communism proven itself? Cuba? China?
Yesterday we had this Chinese guy in chat asking if we could tell him how to get www.cnn.com.

I don't know Focmaester, has't Cuba been under embargo for the last 40 years? Castro is still going strong...

I hope that Chinese guy isn't convicted of being a social dissident.

Oh, man, Castro, he occasionally cracks me up - I loved his offer to have Cuban officials count the Florida ballots during the latest presedential elections "to insure democracy."

You say Castro is going strong? Hmm... holding on by his teeth is how I would describe him - of course, he's still in power, and his speeches are as energetic as ever - but has he have any influence in world-politics? The US, from their point of view, played its cards great: If they'd killed Castro, they would've created a marterer - now, they just have a loudmouth politician who has little or no influence.

Guus: Well not alot of people who rule countries with 11 000 000 citizens have alot to say on a world scale. What I´d realy like to know is, what would happen if USA lifted it´s trade embargo against Cuba? Would we have the first communist country with a stable government and happy citizens?
I don´t know, maybe.. but why keep an embargo against this small country?
Is Cuba a bigger threat that say communist China? No, but trading with China is no problem
Is Cuba any at al threat? Hardly.

Can someone please inform me why this embargo still is in place?

Because the president of the US need the votes of the Miami-cubans who live in exile. If he get those votes chances are he'll win whole Florida. A more firendly policy against Cuba will piss off the Miami-Cubans. And that's the answer to your question, Pooh-Bear.

I'm not sure either why the embargo still is in place, but I think it serves the US - now, they can keep Cuba on a leash, and make it their dustbin (look at the Taliban fighters moved there, for example). Think about it - what do the US have to gain by lifting the embargo?

Talking about China - do you notice how hard the Bush-government is trying to get on the bad side of China's gouvernment? First, there was the incident with that crashed airplane. Fair enough, accidents happen, but the way Bush handled the situation was somewhat hostile. During this all, Bush invited the Dalai Lama. "The two have nothing to do with eachother" is what he claimed. Come on, we're talking about the highest level of politics here - no-one can tell me that that was coincidental. Recently, China counter-intelligence found state of the art spying equipment in China's Airforce One, just after it returned from the US for maintanance. And this guy has been in office for just one year...

I just wanted to mention the whole StarWars thing too... there, I did.

Yeah Guus, and remember what bush said about Taiwan? Something along the lines of defending it to the hilt.

The end is nigh... Trust me

Hey, I think Communism would work - If everybody in that specific country would belive in the ideology. So, what to do? Well let everybody that belives in Communism get theire own peace of land. (Like Alaska or something, where nobody lives. Hehehe..)

Then someone like me shows up and beleives that Communism can work, especially for me.

My tanks speak louder then their censored speeches!!!!!!!

It seems that communism is an idea whose time has come, and gone. It is based on the faulty assumption that all people are equal. To have that work it would mean that all people would have to consider each other their own equal. This is where all these "brotherhood of man" concepts fall down. Since most people are given to selfishness, pride and ambition, it moots their ability to act as equals.

Consider history, after each war or revolution, someone always rises to the top and takes over. Soon a ruling class, oligarchy, royal family, junta, party or other mechanism of power and enforcement grows and then the rulers naturally put into effect laws that benefit themselves...

Not trying to depress anyone but commenting on the realities of history.

good thread and input from all. ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by legend
Hey, I think Communism would work - If everybody in that specific country would belive in the ideology. So, what to do? Well let everybody that belives in Communism get theire own peace of land. (Like Alaska or something, where nobody lives. Hehehe..)

---

...or Norway.
:cool:

Alcatraz got it right I think, but to add my moneys worth - I'd like to

point out that the only countries where Communism is still part of

life, would be countries where the people are repressed. If you

give the option for people to choose what they want then democracy

wins everytime. The only reason why there is still Communism in the world

is because countries like China, North Korea etc rule with an absolute zero

tolerance for any other idealology. Stand up in these countries for democracy

then your acting 'against the will of the people' (read a few dictators who want

it all) and end up being thrown inside for 10 years - this is why their is still Communism.

Cuba has an excellent health service and its all down to Communism, plus where it worked?
Under Stalin, he managed to bring The Soviet Union from a poor feeble state to a World Superpower { at the cost of millions of lives} nether the less he proved he could compete withthe US for a long time but Capitalism did win in the end sure and Im not trying to compare the two but to focus on one, Communism.

Marx believed that society evolved through
successive phases of development.
He thought that "the problem of production"
was solved during the Industrial/Capitalist
phase, and the world was ready to move
on to the Communist phase, where, through
the collective owmership of productive assets,
the "problem of distribution" would be solved.

But I think the problem of production is never
really solved, therefore communist economies
fell behind through lack of research, innovation
and initiative.

During the Reagan arms race, Gorbachev, wanted
to keep Russia in the Great Power game, but needed
a more productive economy to match US spending
on weapons. He initiated economic changes that
led to the abandonment of communism.

I had high hopes for them, but things are still
not going so well after ten years of reform.
:cool:

I'm not a treky but to solve those distribution problem we'd need something like those replicators.

I don't know the_g_nee, I think the best government is a dictatorship with an absolute legend in office. No one hates a great ruler, just his/her heir.