Originally posted here by cheyenne1212
Ok I guess when I said sources I shoud of clarified a bit more.


Sources from respecatble news sources, not from some third party left wing site.
Clarify for me what you mean by respectable news source. What is a respectable news source to you? To me it is someone that tells the TRUTH and does not lie or give disinformation. A repsectable news source should also expose atrocities and world dilemmas to people, without worrying about offending anyone, even their own government. News=truth. A respectable news source, in my opinion needs to report WORTHY information that is important for people to know. Who cares about the michael jackson case. It was important for people to know that hitler was taking over the world, not that the head of the FBI was a crossdresser. What is a respectable news source to you? What the hell does someone being from 'some third party left wing site' have to do with anything? As long as they seek to report the truth then what is the problem? Just because they dont wear flashy suits and have a spot on CNN means they arent a respectable news source? That seems close minded to me. Do away with the party labels and listen to what people have to say. I wonder what the american conservatives that did not want conflict with the british back in colonial times thought of the 'Boston Gazette' paper, which was ran by members from the 'Sons of Liberty', and released pro-patriot propaganda. Thankfully people responded to this and didnt knock them off as 'third party left wing liberals', otherwise we might still be under british control and there may have been no United States. Why do you think there are so many independant media news sources ? You think people are just doing it for fun? No. Independant news media arose from a need. A need to get to people and tell them what is happening, tell them things that they will not hear about on CNN or Cspan. So dont knock a news storie just because Geraldo or Dan Rathers isnt reporting it. Listen to the rest of the world. The internet is a beautiful thing. I remember reading on some site that said hackers are truth seekers. Seek truth man. No matter what, always try to get the facts. Thats a respectable news source.

"Every step towards the truth has had to be fought for at the expense of all that human hearts and human love hold dear." ~Friedrich Nietzsche

"If you shut up the truth and bury it under the ground, it will but grow, and gather to itself such explosive power that the day it bursts through, it will blow up everything in its way."~Emile Zola

**EDIT**
"As veteran journalist Tom Wicker wrote recently, "Bush administration spokesmen have made several cases for waging war against Iraq, and the U.S. press has tended to present all those cases to the public as if they were gospel." We are seeing, Wicker concluded, "an American press that seems sometimes to be playing on the administration team rather than pursuing the necessary search for truth, wherever it may lead ." "
**EDIT**


Originally posted here by cheyenne1212
One more question though... So its a bad thing that we accidentally kill a couple of women and children, but its not a big deal that thousands of ours were lost on 9/11? Or what about Saddam murdering thousands of his own citizens?
You make it all sound so simple. First of all we dont just accidentally kill a couple of women and children. A couple is 2. The civilian death toll is in the thousands and thats just for 2003; Now if i stop there, i come back to my original point that military violence towards the iraqis is not funny. It is serious ****. Do some research and you will find some interesting stuff. The military doesnt just acidentally shoot a few civilians while mowing down hoards of 'bad guys' like in some 1st person shooter. Rather its the other way around. Dont be surprised. Thats how the military is. Like i said before, shoot first and ask questions later. Ever hear of the 'No Gun Ri' massacre in Korea? Its an example of the mentality that the military uses. Civilians are constantly under attack. And ok, lets say its for a purpose. They died for a noble cause. But what the hell is the noble cause? Dont forget, we arent just losing iraqi lifes in this chaos but american ones as well. And for what? First it was to get rid of weapons of mass destruction and we couldnt find those. Read about the gulf war sometime. It is documented that Iraq under Saddams rule(and im not defending Saddam the murderer) proposed to the US that it would destory all of its chemical and biological weapons(this was before the gulf war and iraqs invasion if kuwait)if other countries in the region also destroyed their weapons of mass destruction. The US rejected this proposal. I will quote Noam Chomsky from "What Uncle Sam Really Wants": "Saddam Hussein was then Bush's friend and ally, so he received a response, which was instructive. Washington said it welcomed Iraq's proposal to destroy its own weapons, but didn't want this linked to 'other issues or weapons systems'. There was no mention of the "other weapons systems," and there's a reason for that. Isreal not only may have chemical and biological weapons -- it's also the only country in the Mideast with nuclear weapons(probably about 200 of them). But "Isreali nuclear weapons" is a phrase that can't be written or uttered by any official US government source. That phrase would raise the question of why all aid to Israel is not illegal, since foreign aid legislation from 1977 bars funds to any country that secretly develops nuclear weapons." END QUOTE So anyways, we didnt find the weapons over there so now we are there to liberate Iraq. Thats the new reason. All of your and my tax dollars going towards tanks, bullets, missiles to kill mostly civilians and replace Saddam with a different regime that mimics his dictatorship but is more obediant to the US. For that money for education and all kinds of goodies went bye-bye. Yes Saddam is a murderer. I agree. 911 was uncommon for the US but research the US's history in guatemala, el salvador, nicaruaga, vietnam, korea, etc, etc it goes on and on and you will see that the US is the biggest terrorist nation today.


Originally posted here by cheyenne1212
And also all those so called sources saying that we destroyed their water supply and sewers etc..... Well guess what? We are rebuilding them better than what they were before.
So its ok then? Well first of all that is a war crime, look it up. Second think of all the people that have gotten sick and died from it so far. Third we are not rebuilding anything, even if it is funded with our tax money the natives of Iraq will have to rebuild it.

Originally posted here by cheyenne1212
And what exactly is wrong with those pictures? The first picture is a American soldier that has captured a Iraqi, yet these people have the guts to say this "Demonic American soldier humiliating an Iraqi man held prisoner "

The second is regrettably a young girl who has died. Unfortunate yes, but casualties are a part of war.

I suggest that you realize that these are Americansoldiers whom we should be proud of, are over there risking their lives to keep another 9/11 from happening, yet all you people can do is call them demonic, satanics, etc.

If you say that about our soldiers then I think you should be banned from this country forever.
I dont know about the first picture. Who knows what the prionser did. Maybe he deserves it. I doubt it but hey why not. The second picture, who knows maybe she deserved it too. Thats our tax dollars hard at work. Remember, shes one of thousands. Slaughtering innocent people in iraq will actually not prevent another 911, it will entice it. We trained Bin Laden. Look it up. Yes our american soldiers are over there risking their lives to set up a new puppet regime that will benefit bankers and investors. And if you think someone should be banned from this country for speaking their own mind then you are against the founding principals of this country that you are trying to defend. Do you understand that?

Originally posted here by cheyenne1212
Thats just my opinion though.

But don't worry about it. Your not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.
You hate Bush I love Him. Nothing we can do about it.

Besides its christmas and I don't feel like arguing with you.

I'm going to bed
In an earlier post you said something about winning arguments about bush. Im not trying to win any arguments here. You can love bush all you want. Im not trying to convince you to hate him. The point of all debate is to learn something from it. I cant say i learned anything from your posts, but hopefully you learned something from mine.